Any Brits here with S1 cover from other than UK?

[nomoss]

My wife and I have OAP's from both UK and Spain.

Over

half of both of our pensions comes from Spain, so I never really

understood why the UK provides our medical cover under S1 forms. Perhaps

because first responsibility falls on the country of nationality.

Anyway,

in the event of our S1 cover from the UK ending, we shall be

immediately off to Spain to talk about their providing S1's for us.

Is anyone else in a similar situation?

[woolybanana]

Didn't even know such a thing existed but as one of my pensions comes from Belgium, I shall follow up as and when it becomes necessary.

Nomoss, could you please feedback on your progress eventually? Merci.

[EuroTrash]

Under EU rules then normally, if you've worked and accrued pensions from 2 EU countries, it's the last one you worked and contributed in, that is responsible for you in your retirement (your "competent state" as they used to and maybe still do call it). However, it's not quite that black and white because say you had worked for 30 years in one EU country, and then you moved to another EU country and worked for 6 months and then retired, they would probably agree that the country where you worked for 30 years should be your competent state. I'm not sure whether nationality might come into it too, if you've worked in various countries and contributed roughly equally in them all.

It's your competent state that issues your S1.

If you worked later or longer in the UK than in Spain and that's the reason why UK is your competent state, I guess you could argue, if your S1 is withdrawn, that once the UK is no longer an EU country then by default Spain becomes your competent state.

[NormanH]

I have explained this several times before.

if you live in a country that gives you a pension, it is that country which is responsible for paying your health care, even if it is a smaller pension then one you might receive from another country.

So if Jo blogs has a pension from the UK, one from Spain, and one from France, and happens to live in France, then France is responsible for paying the care even if one of the other pensions is greater.

On the other hand if he moved to Germany from which he has no pension, the country which pays his largest pension has up to now been responsible through the S1 scheme.

[EuroTrash]

So are you saying that you have a pension from 3 EU countries, and after retiring you live first in one then in the second then in the third, are you saying that responsibility for your healthcare keeps switching to the country you move to? It would be perfectly logical but that's not how I understood it, I thought that once you'd retired, it was country where you were where you took retirement that normally became your competent state, and that arrangement remained the same even though you might move around?

And of course there are also people who worked in France as auto entrepreneurs after leaving the UK, and stayed in France after retiring, but because they'd paid in so little by way of AE contributions they still got S1s from the UK. Or that's the way they tell it on forums (alternatively they might not have told the UK the full story). So the theory and the practice might be slightly different.

[nomoss]

Eurotrash:

 

As I thought I inferred, we both worked longer in Spain than

in (France) EDIT: UK

 

The rules were somewhat different in 2003, as we

were both told at that time to claim separately from each country, informing

them of the time worked in the other.

 

Yes, I will consider Spain to be my competent state if my S1

from UK is withdrawn.

 

 

Norman:

 

We don’t live in an EU country paying us a pension.

 

As I said,  Spain

pays over half of our pensions, but Spain and the UK between them somehow

decided that the UK would supply the E121's/S1’s.

 

I once asked someone in the Pension Service why this was the

case, and he didn’t know. I hesitate ask in writing, as every time we have made

a technical query our pension has been reduced.

 

 

Eurotrash again:

 

When we were living in Spain, getting pensions from both

Spain and the UK, we were entitled to Spanish healthcare as residents paying S.

Security, so the question of E121's/S1’s did not arise.

 

When we  moved to

France, advising both countries of this, we were sent E121’s from the UK.

 

So I’ve no idea of how it worked then, or now.

[NormanH]

If someone has a pension from the country in the EU in which that person lives, however small, that country is responsible for paying for health care and that includes issuing a CEAM  (EHIC in the UK).

If the same person lives in a country from which (s)he does not get a pension then under the S1 rule the country which pays (or pays the bigger one if there are more than one) is responsible

I have lost count of the number of times I have had to explain this [:@]

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/when-living-abroad/health-insurance-cover/index_en.htm

[EuroTrash]

It does sound like an anomaly from what you say (assuming Spain was the last country you worked in, which I can't find if you actually say it anywhere but it sounds like it was). I don't know if it's just where the UK is concerned that anomalies arise, or whether it's across the board, or whether the rules have changed, but it's sometimes not obvious how decisions on S1s are arrived at. Either the devil is in the detail or the devil causes confusion, but sometimes you get 2 people in what appears to be very similar circumstances, both ask for S1s and one gets one and the other doesn't. Strangely, the UK seems to err on the side of generosity and gives S1s to people who on paper should maybe not get them, eg people who have worked in France since leaving the UK.

[nomoss]

Eurotrash:

Apologies, I didn't make it clear we last worked in Spain. I also accidently inferred in my last post that we worked in France, this is not so, and I have edited that post.

The situation was very different at the time we claimed our pensions, but from what you and others have said, it would seem to be logical that the country which had received the most years payments should be the one supplying the S1. Not that logic always plays a part in these decisions.

I think that is Spain, on the basis of the monies we receive, but that is distorted by the exchange rate.

My wife has a full list of her qualifying years both for the UK and Spain, but unfortunately I lost my complete file on a visit to the S Sec office in Spain, and it was never found, I have the file with my UK years, and will have to try and work out the Spanish ones from scratch.

We will collect whatever documentation we have ready for a visit to Spain, if necessary, and prepare our case before we go there. We have found them very helpful in the past.

[NormanH]

Of course if you went back to live in Spain your health cover would be paid by the Spanish since you have a pension from them...[6]

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]Of course if you went back to live in Spain your health cover would be paid by the Spanish since you have a pension from them...[6]

[/quote]

That's possible, but I'm not even sure it's the case any longer, and besides economical considerations making it difficult to sell up and move, we much prefer France.

[idun]

[quote user="nomoss"]

Eurotrash:

 

As I thought I inferred, we both worked longer in Spain than

in (France) EDIT: UK

 

The rules were somewhat different in 2003, as we

were both told at that time to claim separately from each country, informing

them of the time worked in the other.

 

Yes, I will consider Spain to be my competent state if my S1

from UK is withdrawn.

 

 

Norman:

 

We don’t live in an EU country paying us a pension.

 

As I said,  Spain

pays over half of our pensions, but Spain and the UK between them somehow

decided that the UK would supply the E121's/S1’s.

 

I once asked someone in the Pension Service why this was the

case, and he didn’t know. I hesitate ask in writing, as every time we have made

a technical query our pension has been reduced.

 

 

Eurotrash again:

 

When we were living in Spain, getting pensions from both

Spain and the UK, we were entitled to Spanish healthcare as residents paying S.

Security, so the question of E121's/S1’s did not arise.

 

When we  moved to

France, advising both countries of this, we were sent E121’s from the UK.

 

So I’ve no idea of how it worked then, or now.

mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:

EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">[/quote]

Is it to do with how many years one worked in each country, rather than the amount paid by the pension service?

[NormanH]

How many more times do I have to post links and explanations?

This is from the EU site ( https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/when-living-abroad/health-insurance-cover/index_en.htm)

Healthcare in the country where you live

• If you receive a pension from the country where you live:
  you and your family are covered by that country's health insurance
  system — even if you are also receiving pensions from other countries.
• If you do not receive a pension or any other income from the country where you live:
  you and your family will receive medical treatment in the country where
  you live if you would be entitled to medical treatment in the country
  that pays your pension.

Sample story

Make sure you know which healthcare system covers you

Nicolas lived in France and worked there for most of his career,

except for a few years he spent in Italy working as a waiter when he was

younger.

When Nicolas retired, he moved to Italy. His pension is therefore

made up of 2 parts: an Italian pension reflecting the years he worked in

Italy and a French pension for the years he worked in France.

As Nicolas lives in Italy AND receives an old age pension from Italy,

Italy will cover his healthcare expenses. He is no longer part of the

French system.

You should request an S1 form (former E106 form) from your health insurance provider in the country you are moving from.

When you arrive in your new country, give your S1 form to the

relevant authority. This document establishes your right to full

healthcare coverage in your country of residence.

Healthcare in the country where you used to work

In principle, you and your family are only fully entitled to medical

treatment in the country where you live. However, if the country which

pays your pension is one of the following, you and your family members

are entitled to medical treatment both in the country which pays your

pension and in the country where you now live:

[EuroTrash]

I think what you are missing, Norman, is that the above link doesn't clearly explain what happens if you have a pension from country A and country B and you live in country C; it doesn't take into account people who may have pensions frm 2 countries. In this case the OP has pensions from Spain and the UK and lives in France where he doesn't have a pension.

You have said that in such cases you are covered by the country that pays you the biggest pension, but that's not what has happened here - the OP's bigger pension is from Spain but the UK has issued his S1.

So unfortunately no matter how many time you post the same info, it will never explain the OP's situation.

[idun]

Yes it is the C country that I am interested in. Which is Nomoss's case.

At one point, we had considered Eire as somewhere to live.

IF we had moved there, we would have needed a french S1, not a UK S1, as the french pension, I was told was greater, but I never did ask if that meant in years or fiscally. In our case, that would be both, a longer employment time in France, hence the bigger pension from France and I really did not think of asking.

[nomoss]

[quote user="idun"] ....................Is it to do with how many years one worked in each country, rather than the amount paid by the pension service?[/quote]

At least the last couple of lines of your post were readable[:D]

Possibly, I am about to check back how many qualifying years I had in UK with the voluntary and back payments I made.

If I can find the exact date I began making payments in Spain, I will work those out too.

It took a while to get the system working for you back then. Social Security said I needed a Residence Permit before I could join, Police said I had to get a Social Security number before I could apply for a Residence Permit. Somehow I managed to get something official, in writing, from another office, to solve that.

At that time one's S.Sec no. was not the same as one's "Foreigner ID"

no. (NIE) issued by the Police, as it is now. There was no proper IT system, much was on paper in huge ledgers, and paperwork had to come by mail from

Madrid.

About a year after we got our magic numbers, they were changed, as their format did not fit the format for ID numbers on IT system being brought in.

It's not surprising so many foreigners worked on the black back then. The funcionarios actively tried to stop you registering officially, repeatedly saying papers were wrong or incomplete, as no-one seemed to really know all the rules. Old ones could not keep up with new methods, but had jobs for life (Franco) and couldn't be replaced.

We went through three gestors in the process - the first was a crook, spent a spell in the pokey, and the second gave up. Even the third was bent, and did most things through contacts and bribery. He was a lawyer actually, but eventually gave that up and ran an estate agency.

[nomoss]

Well, after fighting througn piles of old paperwork, including faxes which have almost faded away, and looking up outdated rules, I find that:

Both our UK pensions were calculated on the basis of UK qualifying years only.

My wife gets €1000 and I get €2000 more pension per year from Spain than from UK.

I have approximately 4 more qualifying years in Spain than in UK

My wife has approximately 6 more qualifying months in UK than in Spain

But both our S1's are issued by the UK.

No logic I can see.

Also, although she has roughly 3 less qualifying years in the UK, but gets about £10 per week more than I do.

This is because her UK pension, paid from age 60, increased by £10 when I reached my retirement age of 65, under the rules at that time, which ended in 2016.

So something worked out OK [:D]