Quillan Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 From the Daily Wail 4th Feb 2011http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1353341/Portsmouth-pub-lady-wins-fight-televise-UK-football-games-Greece.htmlThe interesting bit (as I have no real interest in football) further down the article is what the European Court of Justice could confirm later this year as advised by the European Advocate-General "...selling sport, movies, or any other content, on an exclusive country-by-country basis within the EU may no longer be possible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 that would be good . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The reason this Pub manageress took this to court was because she had lots of financial backing from other interested parties. So even if the EU court do decide that people not in the UK can legally receive British TV broadcasts, and they haven't done that yet. I think the the French protectionists may poke their oar in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well it could be interesting. I do realise that its not really about individuals like us but we may benefit as a spin off should it get put in to EU law. As to the French, well I can't really see they can do anything about it. Of course its not just the Brits in other EU countries. For example certain parts of London have Canal Plus dish's attached to just about every building you can see and I am sure that French in other parts of the EU still manage a way to get their 'dose' of Canal Plus. It will be interesting to see what happens. Personally not a Sky subscriber but did use to be and miss my documentary channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 [quote user="NickP"]The reason this Pub manageress took this to court was because she had lots of financial backing from other interested parties. So even if the EU court do decide that people not in the UK can legally receive British TV broadcasts, and they haven't done that yet. I think the the French protectionists may poke their oar in.[/quote]Surely, this case was about the public screening of football matches - for which Sky demand an expensive licence - not about receiving tv transmissions in countries they are not directed at.There is no legal restriction on any private individual receiving transmissions from any source. Sky's position is that they have paid for the sole right to transmit material in the United Kingdom but not elsewhere. So it is Sky's responsibility to ensure that viewers outside the UK do not receive their programmes - it is not the viewers duty not to watch them. If a private individual can receive Sky transmissions in France they are doing nothing illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 You tell Sky that your address is in France and they will not give you a subscription. If you "manage" to receive Sky broadcasts in France and have a problem with your decoder box, and you phone Sky technical services they will tell you "we don't broadcast in France". So alright if you are going to be pedantic receiving Sky is not illegal, I was speaking in broad terms, but you know what I meant. I think you will find that the biggest problem is the Premier League who don't get paid for overseas viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would never bother with Sky again after going Freesat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Frankly I dont know what you mean.But I do get the impression that you are trying to apply, mistakenly in my opinion, the contractual relation between Sky and a client which in the UK would be receivable in a Civil Court, not perhaps the case in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I have less then zero interest in football but all I can see this case has established is that Sky do not have an exclusive right to broadcast programmes or events in the UK, regardless of what deals they have personally cut with those who provide them.[quote user="NickP"]I think you will find that the biggest problem is the Premier League who don't get paid for overseas viewers.[/quote]I don't think so Nick.The PL will have struck a deal with Sky for the series and will get precisely the sum of same money whether Sky attract 100 viewers or 100 million for the matches.Sky on the other hand, are making money out of each so called 'illegal' oveseas subscriber, money they would not have otherwise received. I suspect this is the reason they do not aggressively pursue such people and only act when something comes to their notice as to not act then would probably be in contravention of their licencing and rights agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well it's all conjecture at the moment until the court rules on it, so we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 It was the "selling sport, movies, or any other content" bit that interested me. Don't Sky sell some of its content to individuals when they buy a Sky subscription and therefore would not the Advocate-General be speaking more in general terms? As was said however that normally only about 80% of what he/she says gets put in to EU law so this may be in the 20% that does not get through.My personal thoughts are that financially it may be in Sky's interest to allow people outside of the UK to buy packages from them if only they knew the size of the pool of those receiving their broadcasts 'illegally'. If you took countries that are on the edge of the coverage area and where Brits live for example, I am primarily thinking of Spain as it's the only country I know a little about, where people pay to receive 'relayed' Sky broadcasts illegally. I remember a few years ago when Sky's agents got Spanish court orders to remove 'illegal' Sky box's from many of the bars and 'English pubs' and also closed down several 'illegal' relay stations serving thousands of individuals. Unfortunately for Sky as soon as one closed another sprung up in its place and people pay a premium to view Sky Movies etc. Now my BOI gets his TV that way but would be much happier if he could mount a big 1.5M dish in his garden but he won't pay out that sort of money just in case they find out and stop his subscription and he is not alone, there are thousands who think the same way down there.I also think the implications will be much bigger than just Brits watching Sky because I suspect (and from what I have seen in London) that many nationalities take their respective decoders to other countries so they can watch TV from their native country. This case could potentially open up a whole can of worms that private individuals could benefit from.I do appreciate that this article is nothing to do with receiving Sky outside the UK and that it is to do with receiving Pay to View TV in the UK from Greece but my logic is that if it works one way then it must work the other way as well which is what the Advocate-General is basically saying in that no EU country can ban others in a different country from receiving their TV broadcast. I also wonder if this would mean that the current restrictions on things like I Player would also have to be lifted.As to the current situation and its legality I have used hyphens round the word legal because as far as I know there is no criminal illegality involved but just a civil thing for which companies can sue you for although having said that perhaps it changes from country to country. I am led to believe that just by watching a TV channel you are automatically agreeing to their terms and conditions of use and as such are entering in to some form of contract with them but I am not legally qualified to make further comment on this. Mind you when I think about what happened in Spain and the fact that Sky way able to get court orders to enter property and remove equipment with the police in attendance perhaps there is some form of criminal law involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The Amstrad Double VHS recorder wouldn't have got off the ground in france. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Can't see why it is illegal to subscribe to sky in France. It's a free market, isn't it? Isn't that the whole point in this Europe concept thingy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I don't think it is actually illegal just that Sky do not have an agreement with their content providers to broadcast that material outside of the UK.Also a free market does not mean the freedom for anybody to do anything anywhere just because it is what happens in one particular EU member country.I'm sure the Brussels mandarins dream of their Utopia where we all become amorphous androgynous zombie clones, and maybe the day will come, but if it does it's thankfully many decades away and I don't plan to be around to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 [quote user="AnOther"] Utopia where we all become amorphous androgynous zombie clones[/quote][:D]Sounds novel but not sure on androgynous....would one get to choose each night whether to activate one's andro or gyno organs.[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Whatever floats your boat but it would wipe away any possibility of gender based discrimination would it not [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Sky gets its money from advertising. It currently tells advertisers that 100% of its audience is in Britain - so the coverage figures it can quote give a better impression than if they had to say to Sainsbury's or whoever that the useful audience figures are in fact lower, since it has a number of European subscibers. Thus it remains in Sky's interests to say that their programmes are not available outside the UK whilst happily collecting subscriptions from mainland Europe by the back door, even though at least half of their advertisers have no interest in the market here.Like AnO, I could care less about footie, but the programmes which Murdoch has bought up for Sky Atlantic (Mad Men, Weeds, Treme - the list is endless as it includes the entire output and back catalogue of HBO amongst other things) I am certainly going to miss.[:@] His stranglehold over television worldwide just grows every day and anything which can curb his grip on the media would be a good thing, imo, not a bad. Whether this holds any hope though, Quillan, it's hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 [quote user="cooperlola"]whilst happily collecting subscriptions from mainland Europe by the back door[/quote]Yes but they are actually loosing out on a lot of Expats in places like Spain. The relay companies buy one domestic subscription from Sky via an address somewhere in the UK then 'Fred Blogs' in Spain has to buy or rent a special box from the relay company which receives channels from their relay station and 'Fred Blogs' pays a monthly subscription from them which can be higher than a normal UK domestic Sky. Apparently (according to the BBC which I found in a Google search) in 2006 there were 5.5M Brits living (not holidaying) in and around Benidorm and that part of the coast (I believe its called the Costa something or another) and many of them subscribe to this sort of system. That's not to mention the Bars which use domestic UK Sky by the same system or mount big dish's on their roof's although my BIL tells me they are no longer able to do this.[quote user="cooperlola"] ......Murdoch...... His stranglehold over television worldwide just grows every day and anything which can curb his grip on the media would be a good thing, imo, not a bad. Whether this holds any hope though, Quillan, it's hard to say.[/quote]Well I don't like bullies and people who try and control my life by only offering one solution so I am with you on that, business empire is far too big and I would like to see his business's broken up and parts sold off. Nobody should have such total control over the media.As to what will happen, I doubt anything will change but it would be nice if it did. Strange thing about adverts in Europe, you often see the same on French and UK TV but in their respective native language and I am not talking about the obvious like cars but some of the more obscure products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think the AG may have overlooked the fact that his office have written into EU statute that sole distributorships are permitted under EU competition legislation. There may be a slight nuance between the sale of tangible goods and broadcast materials in that I could for example go to the UK, buy tangible goods that are available under sole distributorship there and say in France and bring the goods back to France. I cannot do that with a broadcast, but I suspect this will be a whole lot more complicated to enact than it appears - unless sole distributorships go by the board. The real problem is the (mainly US) program and film distribution houses, who sell a package of programs under sole distributorship to Sky for UK and Eire, and the same package to Canal + for France, and again to Germany , and Italy and, and, and....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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