Why do people create obstacles to rehoming?

[Will]

A certain other forum about France regularly removes any postings about rehoming animals, which makes life very difficult both for pet refuges and others who take pity on stray kittens. The reason for this is, apparently, a French law that says any advertising of domestic animals must give the tattoo or microchip number of the animal (or its mother) plus various other details.

What a ridiculous rule - it probably results in animals having to be put down that might otherwise be given a loving home. Mrs Will has had several postings removed, even those to say that she has e-mailed somebody (we have an unofficial cat rescue centre in France that desperately needs to find homes for animals). The only place where the rule seems to be enforced is on that forum - fortunately notices in the vet's surgery and ads in the local papers do not seem to be so keen on compliance with this so-called law.

It does annoy me. Trying to rehome pets is not going to do anybody any harm, unlike the illegal property ads and plugs for unregistered businesses that appear all over those forums, where the unwitting are likely to be ripped off or worse.

[Harley]

I quite agree.  They were quick to remove my posting asking why they allowed blatantly un-registered businesses to advertise their trades but, as you say, will insist on the law being adhered to with regard finding good homes for unwanted animals.  Could it have something to do with the fact that they are making some money out of those businesses but not from those poor unwanted animals?  Surely not![6]

[Catalpa]

Several people have told me that they invent chip and tattoo numbers based on the format of those they've seen previously. Seems a good approach to me. [6]

[chris pp]

I would think that to start with Will, the reason for putting the tattoo or micro chip details is to ensure that the rightful owner has a chance to claim their animal, or to show that an attempt has been made to trace the owners, after all a chip has to be read by an authorised person (Vet, Gendarme etc). If you take an animal to a vet for the first time, its chip or tattoo details should be checked by the vet before they register you on their files as the owner.When an animal changes hands legally, its registration details have to be transfered in the same way that you would a car.

Why, as you have stated, do you have an unauthorised or unofficial animal refuge? If it is unofficial, it has no legal means to raise funds, and no checks on the competence of the people running it, a bit like me setting up a bird rescue centre just because I feel like it, it wouldn't be legal.

Chris

 

[Catalpa]

Chris, as you've probably seen on this forum and TotalFrance, particularly over the past few months people have been trying to find homes for kittens that have been dumped on them or, for eg, they have found them in boxes tossed into hedgerows. You know how it is, how many of these posts there are - and for puppies too. With the particular forums in question - there are a number of regional franchises - homing ads aren't allowed unless the animals themselves or at least the mother have chip or tattoo numbers.

Or there are instances where people have taken on cats which have been left by previous owners and subsequently tried to find someone else to take over care for the cats. They are prevented from posting availability details on forums which are very regionally focussed and therefore offer a good chance of delivering a home because of this piously enforced rule. If someone has taken on a litter of kittens found in a box, it's a bit much to expect them to pay to have them chipped and registered before they try and home them. Even so, these same forums are happy to take advertising from non-registered artisans / businesses - which must also be against French regulations - but hey, as Harley says, ignoring that rule delivers revenue to the franchise holders...[6]

[Will]

Chris - the sort of animals I am thinking about are those which are semi-feral or were never given identification in the first place. Of course they all get checked by the vet, and if identification is found then every effort would be made to trace the owner. It just seems wrong to me that a web site should invoke some obscure law, that few others seem to bother with, to reduce these poor creatures' chances of finding proper homes.

Authorised animal refuges are prevented from using these sites because of the adherence to this rule - my remark about Mrs Will's 'unofficial rescue centre' was tongue in cheek, it's due to so many uncared for local cats finding a place where they get free food and a bit of attention (as well as vaccination and neutering, but we don't tell them about that), plus holiday home owners who find kittens appearing in their sheds. There was never any intention to become one, but it grew to the scale of being like a refuge. It has been financed entirely by us with no desire to raise funds (but 'elevage' discounts at the vets are much appreciated) though thanks to a more hard hearted approach, natural wastage (many of the cats are so in-bred that they don't live too long but they get a happy time) and some rehoming it is getting to more manageable proportions.

It just annoys me that any request for homes, or even response from the likes of Mrs W, as well as the official refuges, to offers to give homes to cats, is immediately removed from those forums, though they think nothing of carrying plugs for the far less altruistic illegal businesses and dodgy artisans. Thanks are due to this forum for being more accommodating to the needs of animals.

[Deimos]

Will, I agree (and can see Chris' point as well). One great difficulty I have with the forums concerned (and the reason I don't use them) is that they are there for the sole purpose of making those running it money. In participating, their only interest in you is that you are generating activity and making them money (indirectly). Certainly on my "regional" one there is no spirit of community. When I did look at it, nobody ever says thank you where somebody spends time giving a detailed response to a question, etc.

Business is about profit and as you say, ignoring unregistered business adverts is making them money so to them it does not matter. Whilst I am not particularly happy about such an approach, others seem OK with this as they continue to use those forums (i.e. they have the option to walk with their feet).

One possible reason that people might avoid e.g. the SPA is that they have a bit of a reputation. I was told by a vet student (who had also worked in the UK as a vet nurse) that the SPA have a bit of a reputation for putting animals down compared to the UK rescue centres. I cannot comment on the truth or otherwise of this as I do not have the experience but am only repeating what I was told.

Maybe the removal of re-homing posts on the forum concerned says something about the attitudes of those running the sites. Clearly the aspect of "the law" is not their reasons otherwise they would not be complicit in assisting illegal businesses - probably just their excuse. Maybe they just don't like animals.

Ian

[chris pp]

I'm actually in agreement with you Will, and I have also had more than my share of little difficulties with some of those sites, had several postings removed and been warned on a few occasions as well, which I would think that most people would be surprised about as I'm very careful about what I write, many times I've had useful links deleted.

I once dared to say that France was the third largest user of pesticides in the world, this it seems was an unacceptable post and broke the rules.

The feral kitten situation is a nightmare in France, as is animal welfare in general in my view, but I really would like to see some of the concerned Brits get together (as some have done) and create associations, get some financing, which would come partly from the State, raise funds, get members and really get the show on the road. Finding the odd home for kittens, worthy though it is, doesn't actually change anything,  it's a real change in attitude and approach that's required.

Cheers for now, Chris

 

[Christine Animal]

... get some financing which would come partly from the State...

That would be marvellous Chris, but I wouldn't count on in   There is not one single refuge in the Deux-Sèvres (except for the small one just for Niort) and no financial help whatsoever.  I call it "Le Département sans Coeur".

 

 

[chris pp]

There is money for many associations, Christine, whether it be from the commune, canton, department, region or whatever, even the EU, but you have to go out and get it, it doesn't fall through the letterbox unasked. Local businesses will often sponsor projects as well, maybe part of the construction costs for any shelters, or an animal food producer may help, the banks are always good for a bit of money as well, perhaps the BB Foundation would help, every little bit counts.

BUT, first you have to have your association, or its planned aims and projects, well set up and presented and find out just what is possible, and it does give you the possibility to organise fund raising events, get some articles in the department newspapers, talk to France Bleu, anything. 

It's not my thing, as you know, but unless people take really positive steps, nothing ever happens other than "Another little fluffy needs a home, please help". What it needs is positive energetic action - get out and make it happen - think big.

Chris

 

 

[Christine Animal]

I know it doesn't come through the letterbox Chris, for years I used to have a stand/stall at the local Sunday market and any foires/fêtes in the region to try to get a little money while informing people at the same time.  I always enjoyed the contact.

 

[chris pp]

My point is very simply that people, mainly Brits, are always posting on fora that they have found cats or kittens etc, they also talk about it incessantly every where I go, but only a few have taken action, used the system that is available in France (create an association, 1901) and set up something that can really change the situation, albeit locally.

It should be possible to find vets that will "reduce their charges" for an asso, and I would have thought that with the number of Brits, yes Brits, never mind French, people who are either living here or have holiday homes, that it should be possible to get people to be members, say for 15€ a year, the money soon adds up and some would no doubt do some voluntary work as well.

I've yet to see anyone make this suggestion, or to ask if people would be interested in participating.

Chris

[Will]

Chris - there is an association that seems to be run (basically by British I believe) very much along the lines that you suggest, based at Montebourg in 50. In fact it was the treatment of that association by another web site that inspired my original posting. The good news is that in the meantime the Montebourg cat refuge - Le Chat Mon Ami - has called AngloInfo's bluff by posting its charity registration number from the prefecture and saying that this is a legal alternative to individual tattoo/microchip numbers. So far, they have got away with it - their appeals remain on line.

Of course, the refuge is somewhat overloaded and there are still individuals like us who try to relieve the pressure on the formal associations. But perhaps we can all work together to achieve new homes for needy animals.

Unfortunately the French system and vested interests still rear their its heads. It is possible (though not as straightforward as it would be in England) for such an association to raise funds, though there are restrictions - for instance giving a tin of cat food is fine, but getting actual money is much more difficult. Sadly, I understand there are more serious legal and insurance obstacles to doing voluntary work for such charities in France.

[Dick Smith]

Has anyone ever tried, in France, what happens at our local Sainsburys, where there are a couple of dustbins at the exit for shoppers to deposit cat and dog food? The bins are always overflowing (though of course I don't know how often they are collected). Would French shoppers respond, do you think? Perhaps supermarkets with a heavy Englsih speaking clientele would be best.

[Will]

Apparently, Dick, that has been looked into, but the supermarkets in France will not allow it.

[Dick Smith]

How did I know that would be the case? Insurance problems? Or just plain can't be bothered? Answers on a postcard.

[Cassis]

I wonder why not?  I have seen people collecting food donations at supermarkets for homeless people or something of the sort.

[Christine Animal]

There are some big supermarket chains who will give their "casse" for animals, all the dented tins, ripped bags, etc. that they cannot sell.  Of course you have to prove you are an association and where it goes. They also do it for the Restos du Coeur, etc.  We had this where we were before and it was a great help, but I haven't looked into it here yet.

In this way they help you, but also they do not have to pay someone to come to take it away.

 

[chris pp]

 "Of course you have to prove you are an association and where it goes."

This is exactly the point that I'm trying to make, create associations, then when there are enough of them, create a federation that the associations can all be members of, it doesn't matter if it's Brits that do it.

If you have an association many of the supermarkets will allow you, by prior arrangement, to use their forecourt, they may even dosh out some money, but nothing happens without trying in the first place. Insurance is minimal for these types of activities, a start could be made with sterilisation programmes for all these feral cats and kittens, I'd start one myself if I wasn't to busy with other things, I've got enough on my plate as it is.

Chris