To vaccinate or not to vaccinate

[Jackie]

Hi, we have two aging (14 years old) house cats that came to France with us in 2001. They are not now in the best of health. Each year we have taken them for a check-up and top-up vaccination to a local vet. Last year they were given the usual Coryza, Typhus and Leucose feline vaccines, which they have had in all the previous years without problems, but we noticed that Chlamydiose was also given for the first time. They both became very ill a few days after this and on returning to the vet, chest infections in both cats were diagnosed and blood samples were taken. The bloods showed the beginnings of a kidney problem in both cats, not uncommon in the older cat, and they will have to take Fortekor for the rest of their lives.

 

We are wondering if we are doing them any favors with further annual vaccinations as they are house cats and never go outside. One French web site only recommends Coryza and Leucose feline for house cats that have no direct contact with other cats. We don’t anticipate ever putting them in a cattery and have friends that would come and feed them etc in the unlikely event that we ever have to both be away from home at the same time. Whilst most vets would recommend annual vaccinations, following last year’s experience, we wonder if this would be the best thing for them or should we not have any further vaccinations at all. What would you do, or if you have already been in this position, what did you decide to do?…………………….Jackie

[cooperlola]

Confession time - in the UK all our cats were house cats and we did not vaccinate them as they got older.  One is here in France with us (now being vaccinated again as she can go out here) and is still with us - she will be 18 next month.

[Anyone for Cricket?]

my old cat also 18 had been without vacinations in the UK but I too have had her done here as she neded to go into a cattery for a few days, she was fine but they did not give her Chlamydiose, what is it? 

Do you find that cats act more and more bizarrely as they age, mine has taken to sleeping in the middle of the kitchen table rather than on anything comfy, bit odd but we work around her and have stopped using it for the time being until she adopts a more suitable place, removing her does no good at all she just gets back on, before that it was the sky digi box and her tail kept blocking the remote!

If I were you I would not attempt the vaccination again, they are at little risk surely inside the house?

[londoneye]

I am not an expert at all, but i do believe that we all over-vaccinate our animals (myself included).     I did however (previous life as scientist as well as HR manager (thats if the man who hates HR managers is reading !), do research on feline flu for a while, so have done some reading on animal antibody reactions.    Its is quite likely that your cats will anyway retain suffient antibodies from their last innoculations for considerably longer than the one year period recommended.    Thus, if you choose not to give them boosters at their stage of life, then you will probably not have an issue, in the circumstances you describe.   If my cat did not go outdoors, i would probably only vaccinate him every 2 or three years to be honest.   But, again i have to say i am not an expert, so this is a personal view rather than an expert one.

[Wozza]

[quote user="jpe"]

before that it was the sky digi box and her tail kept blocking the remote!

[/quote]

I don't know what it is about those boxes, but our 17 year old loves it - she hasn't been out in 2 days because of the weather! Must be a pooh day tomorrow - the forecast says fine!

On the other subject, our vet in the UK used to tell us that it was of little use vaccinating cats after they reached 10 years old - they had either had enough vaccinations to build up resistance or they hadn't - after that age the injectoions were of liitle effect. We did then stop vaccinating our eldest cat who lived to 19 plus, and died from unnnatural causes (ie she probably would have lived longer). Having said that, we still have all ourcats vaccinated in France just to make sure all their passports are inpeccable, but each time, one of them has a bad reaction to the jabs, more usually the older ones. If we thought wewould never go back, we probably would save them the stress, but you never know.....

You do what you think is best, it may not always be right, but your heart is in the right place...

Warren

[Jackie]

Thanks for the replies folks. I think Chlamydiose is Chlamydia which I understand in cats gives problems with the lungs and sometimes the eye. This was the first time that they had been given this and I think that it was responsible for making them both ill for some time afterwards. On seeing the vet again last year a chest infection for both was diagnosed and blood tests showed some signs of kidney problems. Diet change was recommended along with a daily dose of Fortekor.

Both cats now seem to be bright and showing no signs of illness other than the fact that both tend to vomit more often than you might expect. I understand that all cats do this from time to time and can do so at will but the frequency has gone up since they were switched on to the new diet, Royal Canin Senior (low in protein), and when they started  Fortekor at the same time. Ben a large black and white at 7kg, has Fortekor 5 and Luke, a tabby at 5kg, has Fortekor 2.5. It has been suggested that unless the protein levels in their urine is high then the Fortekor may be doing them no real good but on the other hand it should not be harming them at all. I suspect that it is the diet food that may be upsetting them, Ben in particular. Ben has lost a little weight and Luke has put some on and both tend to drink more water than they used to do though I understand that this might be due to the food they now eat. I also think that their urine output has increased. I wonder if the food is swelling up inside them and causing the vomiting sometimes. Often the vomit contains no undigested food and is only a frothy liquid. Ben seems to be more affected than Luke. His rear end output is more often than not of the same consistency as a cowpat! Luke, on the other hand, has a normal looking output. From time to time we have noticed that both cats cough and have read that this can be a sign of kidney problems.
Our dilemma is what to do for the best for them. Should we be concerned about the frequency of vomiting and coughing? The concensus of advice from Living France and Total France posters seems to be to avoid further vaccinations but do we submit them to the further stress of an examination by a vet and the rather invasive way the they take blood samples here in France, i.e. from the neck and not the paw and restraining the cat whilst fishing around with a needle trying to find a vein. The blood test results last year showed only a slightly elevated levels of nasties indicating possible kidney problems. Again many thanks folks for the opinions you have already given………………Jackie

[Anyone for Cricket?]

My cat vomits more than you would expect and more than she used to too.  She has actually stopped recently, I don't know if it's diet related as we have recently decided to ignore the vets advice about dry food as she hates it, lost weight and vomited and she is back on whiskers wet sachets.  I've decided that at her age she should be able to eat what she likes and if it does cut her life a bit shorter at least she will be happy. 

The vets here are obsessed in my opinion with dry food.  My poor old dog who sadly died this year at the ripe old age of 17 was overweight and the vet kept saying if you fed her less and on this dry stuff she would have lived longer, now I don't know of many dogs who live to 17 as I told him every time, he shrugged.  He has now started the same thing on my remaining dog who is 11 and as fit as a fiddle and not in the least bit overweight. 

When I have kidney issues which I do from time to time a doctor has never told me to cut down on protein, I know that it's a strain on the kidneys but surely only if there is a kidney malfunction?

I think that sometimes the vets prey on our love of our pets and make us think that not to follow their way is letting the pet down, I say do what feels right!

[Wozza]

[quote user="jpe"]

The vets here are obsessed in my opinion with dry food.  My poor old dog who sadly died this year at the ripe old age of 17 was overweight and the vet kept saying if you fed her less and on this dry stuff she would have lived longer, now I don't know of many dogs who live to 17 as I told him every time, he shrugged.  He has now started the same thing on my remaining dog who is 11 and as fit as a fiddle and not in the least bit overweight. 

[/quote]

Does your vet by any chance sell that really expensive 'science' type dry food diet that he gets huge commission on? Mine does, and he has suggested that we start our perfectly healthy 2 year old husky on it, even though he could find nothing wrong with her, but just because it is 'better for her'.

[Llwyncelyn]

Jackie I too found the way they take blood here a bit alarming and with our late Thomas he would not have anything to do with it.  Paw yes but neck not a chance and he swished and caught me and that was the first time in over 15 years that he had ever shown signs of anger towards me.

As to dry food you should have tried it with Thomas again he was something else and loved prawns and yes I bought them for him when we lived in the UK but what the hell he was lovely I loved him and he was my little (not so little angel)  I know what the vet says here but our approach has been a balanced one and our animals look as thought they have a good life and not a dried food meal in sight.

Our forefathers had domestic animals and in my case dried food was never thought of then.

 

regards

[Jackie]

Just a further note about the food we give them. We are phasing out the dry Royal Canin S/O kidney and osteo food and have introduced Royal Canin RENAL S/O with chicken which is moist and not a dry food, which has had the effect of stopping Ben's cowpats!

At the moment they have a mix of this and some of the dry food so it looks as if the dry food on it's own was not directly upseting him but causing him to drink too much water and hence the cow pats. We will continue to phase out the dry food and see how they get on. The only question in my mind now is does this RENAL S/O food provide adequate nutrition for our 14 year old cats. The ingredients are not listed and nothing is shown on their web-site. They do get a bit of cooked chicken from time to time but we wonder if this is enough for them...........Jackie 

[cooperlola]

I was feeding the equivalent food to an old cat back in the UK.  My vet explained to me that eventually the cat might begin to suffer from a lack of certain nutrients in his diet but that renal failure would be postponed so all in all it was preferable.  He lived for 6 more years (on the special diet and absolutely nothing else) before his system packed up at the age of 18.  He was certainly water obsessed in the last few months of his life, to the extent that he even learnt to turn the tap on in the bath!!

[Blanche Neige]

"we have two aging (14 years old)"

errm............that's quite young, we had a female tabby who lived until she was 21 yrs. old!

Every year we had her vaccinated as we live in a town and there are other cats in the neighbourhood. Towards the end of her life we stopped as she stayed in a lot, it didn't seem worth putting her through the trauma of the outing to the vet and then the injection.

As others have said the problem arises if you want to put the cat in a cattery but fortunately we never did.