Meeting with teacher

[Lori]

I met today with one of my daughter's teachers after getting a note in

her Cahier de Correspondence that her attitude/behavior had

changed.  She is in sixieme and is 12 years old in March. 

The meeting was very informative.  Apparently, my daughter has

stopped participating in class and her grades have dropped. 

Grades were very good up to now and participation was too.  When

this particular teacher approached her to ask if something had happened

to cause such a change in her behavior, my daughter looked off to the

wall and said "no."  Not very respectful.  She asked her

again on another day and  the answer was the same.  The

teacher told her that if there was something wrong and she felt she

could not talk openly, then she could write it down and leave it for

her.  No response.

I am terribly worried and a bit angry and need a bit of advice from

those of you who might have dealt with this with your own children.

I explained to the teacher that nothing is different in our household. 

I did go on to say that I have noticed a difference in Nina's behavior

myself.  I even went on to block her Intenet access as I found

that she was using chat rooms that I felt were not appropriate for her

age group.  The one in question is the website for FillesTV - a

Canal Satellite channel that airs animated and regular programs for

kids.  The website offers a chat room supposedly designed for

young women / adolescents and their issues.  I went there and

couldn't believe what I was reading.  Installed the Parental

software immediately.  No chat rooms, no inappropriate sites,

etc.  I also explained to the teacher that I, personally, use MSN

Messenger to communicate with my husband when he is traveling.  It

is far cheaper than the telephone.  Our daughter was allowed to

use it to communicate with her step brother in the U.S. and her school

mates.  Once when I was online talking with my husband (1:30 pm )

someone came online and sent me an instant message.  Apparently,

my daughter had changed my online name to her own.  This "person"

said "salut" and I returned the "salut" just to find out who the heck

was talking to me as her name was one that caused some alarm.  She

went on to say that she KNEW she was not talking with Nina as she KNEW

she was in school.  Long story short, this person was very

disrespectful and, in the end, I told her she was talking to the

mother.  She then apologized and I signed off (angry).

It was after this that I then began looking at how the computer was being used. 

Nina is in the full throngs of puberty.  She looks 14 or 15 and is

very pretty (okay, my opinion) and the teacher also noted this and felt

that it could simply be that she is grappling with all these issues and

isn't quite mature enough to handle it.  Is easily distracted by

people and things in general.

I have spoken with Nina about these things and she is behaving much

better at home now.  She understands why I have closed off the

Internet to her.  She also understands that until she begins

improving in school and beoming more honest, she will find herself

continuously in the dog house.  I tried to tell her that once

someone loses their confidence / trust in you, it is extremely hard to

regain it.  And, how very important it is to be the best you can

be - in every way.

Now, I need the advice of a few others please.   ...   I'm terribly worried.  She is our only child.

I did ask the teacher to please give me a written report at the end of

each week to let me know if the week was same, better or worse than the

one before...  She agreed to do that.

Thanks.

Lori

[Tresco]

Hi Lori

It sounds to me as though you have nipped something in the bud, so well done.

A post like yours is very hard for people. Parenting is such an individualistic thing these days and it's easy to be - or come across as - patronising, obvious, judgemental etc.

Bearing in mind that I do not intend to be any of the above, and that anything I say is said with the great benefit of hindsight.

I would keep her right away from chat rooms, all of them. Don't dangle them in front of her as a reward for good behaviour. She needs to get back on an even keel in the real world. While the sites she was visiting may have been inappropriate, or unsavoury, she will be missing them in some way: that 'loss' needs to be replaced.

I would do as many things that she enjoys with her as possible, and even encourage doing things together that she may recently have come to view as childish. On the other hand, if you have a good idea of the kind of things she has been reading/discussing, I really think she is not suddenly going to lose interest in those things. I'd get her some really good books, books that will challenge her, but which deal with the kind of things she has been delving into on the net. You could spend some time looking at Amazon together if she reads more comfortably in English.

She is probably mortified on several fronts. She knows you know what she has been exposed to etc,  she knows she's not doing as well at school, and she knows you and the teacher are in cahoots.

Try your hardest not to lecture her at home. Keep the written report from the teacher to yourselves, act positively on the contents, but avoid quoting it at her. When you get the report, wait until your daughter is in bed before you open it; if it's bad news, you will have the evening to reflect/calm down.

Be extra nice to her, she is probably worried sick too.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I'll second that, Tresco; Lori, the prompt response you made has

probably stopped any potential difficulties from getting worse. As you

have a willing teacher on your side (it seems) I would be tempted to

keep in close touch with them over the next couple of weeks.

[Lori]

Thank you both very much.  I knew when I posted that I might not

get any replies.  Just took a chance as I don't have many friends

who  have children older than my daughter, therefore cannot advise

me.

Nina actually called me at 12:30 pm, from school, as she knew my appt.

was for 11:30 am.  I was not home at the time.  She called

again at 4 pm, between classes.  She wanted to know how the appt.

went.  I told her that the teacher was very kind and very

concerned for her.  Since I was paying for the call, I suggested

we talk when I picked her up from the bus stop.

She was very keen to talk.  We spent an hour talking about the

kids in her class, all her teachers, assignments, likes and dislikes

and we both felt much better afterwards.  She cried a bit and I

tried to explain to her that I am always here for her.  That she

should never hesitate to come to me for ANY thing.  I think she

understood. 

In the end, she promised me she would give an extra effort and

participate in class.  She went further to say that she would be

sure to be polite to the teachers and her classmates.

I do intend to take more outings with her.  We plan to do lots of

things in Avignon during the upcoming winter break as we don't do that

often.  Rhone cruise, Papal Palace tour, visit friends who live

there, etc.

She is an avid reader, so I will look for the books - good idea.

A very sincere thank you !

Lori

[Russethouse]

My two are 21 and 24 so believe me, I have been there! (Luckily the internet was so popular and we didn't have a home computer when they were 12/13 so I missed the chat room scenario, thank goodness)

Just when you think the finishing line is ahead and you have bought up a reasonable human being, they become teenagers ! (and sometimes at a moment when our parents may need us more or we have our own issues to deal with)

The good thing is that you have got a 'handle' on this early and that your daughter has a caring teacher. From everything you have posted here I imagine that you and your daughter have a good, strong relationship.

 There is always someone here to help

 

[Patf]

It's a completely new experience, coping with a child who has just

reached puberty. And I think girls are more complicated than boys. We

have two of each. You seem to have dealt with this situation better

than I would have done - you learn as you go along. And the teacher

sounds " sympa" too. You don't say anything about your daughter's

friends - she's just reaching the age where friends are as important as

parents. A good friend can also help her to work through

problems.Another point is that boys who mature early are usually looked

up to by their peers, but with girls it can be different. I

know what it's like to take your childrens' problems to heart. Pat.

[Lori]

I thank you all for your sympathetic responses.  I love living in

France, but I do not have many friends who have children my daughter's

age.  My husband is most always working overseas.  Much as he

is always there for me, there is a difference between being their via

computer and being there in person.  I appreciate the advice from

others.  It is invaluable.

Yes, her teacher is great and I thanked her for being there for

us.  I will do my best to try to remedy the situation as best I

can.  I am always open to the advice of parents who have been

there.

I thank you all.  It is often hard to be alone.

Lori

[Alcazar]

Hi Lori. It's when I read posts like yours that I thank my stars, and anyone else out there that I got two boys. Not that boys don't have problems with puberty, etc, but as a bloke, I'm more equipped to deal with them, understand them etc.

Two things you said in your first post set off alarm bells with me.

Firstly, your daughter needs reassurance that you DO trust her implicitly. It's the OTHER people out there, those who may, or may not be who they say they are, who you DON'T trust. Explain that over and over until she feels valued again.

Secondly, you mention your husband, (and I assume, Nina's dad), working away. Does that leave her a little isolated? Is your house at all isolated in it's situation? Or does she have plenty of friends nearby? What about siblings?

What I'm getting at is that teenagers, (and she nearly is by age and probably is by maturity), NEED input from their own age group. An isolated teenager is an unhappy teenager. I know: my eldest was an isolant.

I think quite a lot of what people say about chatrooms is knee-jerk reaction, and can be taken with a pinch of salt. It's certainly no worse than what you'd overhear in the playground, cafe, disco, etc. What you MUST do is to stress, then stress again, then stress again, the dangers that CAN exist, and the rules for safe conduct.

I think that with guidance, she can be both happy, and safe.

My own youngest lad, (now 16), has met many members of both the opposite, and the same sex through chatrooms, often there are mutual contacts, and he has a wide circle of friends through it. His contact list is over 200!

I know you are worried, but try to see it from Nina's point of view too.

Hope some of this helps, and none of it upsets[:)]

Alcazar

[Tresco]

[quote user="Alcazar"]

I think quite a lot of what people say about chatrooms is knee-jerk reaction, and can be taken with a pinch of salt. It's certainly no worse than what you'd overhear in the playground, cafe, disco, etc.

[/quote]

I agree with this Alcazar, but as she won't be going to disco's or cafes at 11, there is only the playground left. If someone is perhaps a bit isolated socially at school, and they are using chat rooms for social contact, and their behaviour has noticeably changed in a way that is causing concern, to me that is the problem with using them at present, not the 'nightmare' scenario.

 

[Lori]

Alcazar - thank you for posting your thoughts.  I can use all the input I can get.

As far as trust, we have discussed this at length.  I have left

out a few things that have caused me to question my trust in her - no

need to make my post any longer than it was...  Needless to say, I

want very much to have total trust in her, but recent events make me

careful about it.  She knows this and she knows why. 

We have discussed the Internet issues on so many ocassions, I lose

track.  She knows that people will misrepresent themselves on the

Internet - because they can.  I have explained that many "criminal

types" will use the Internet in an attempt to gain personal information

about other people, share pervurse (forgot how to spell that) ideas or

even try to find young people to "meet up with."   I do

believe that the chat room that she was frequenting was taking 

her to places totally inappropriate for young people.  

Sending her data / websites that are not for her age group.  Hence

strict blocking of Internet sites.  She can still use her email to

communicate with her friends, but I even monitor that.  All

contacts must be people she really knows - schoolmates,

etc.   Others will be removed.  She knows this too 

-  it was a condition of keeping the email address.  I can

take that away if it becomes an issue. 

I know I probably sound terrible, but I saw what she was accessing.

Yes, my husband is overseas alot and yes, he is her Dad.  We have

always led a somewhat unusual life - for too  many reasons to

list, but he talks to her nearly every day and is here often too. 

We didn't think moving her around all the time (his work takes him all

over the world)  would be good for her.  Hence we stay put

and he does the traveling.

I don't think our house is isolated.  We live in a village of

about 3300 residents, so not huge.  Our house is about 1.5

kilometers outside the village.  We often walk in.  Her very

best friend lives about 1.5 kilometers from us and is here very very

often.  Most of her other friends live in neighboring Mormoiron or

Mazan (where the college is located).  As for siblings, my husband

has a son from his first marriage.  He lives in the U.S. and is 20

years old, so they communicate very often by email.  He is a great

influence on her.

I agree with you that teenagers need input from their own age group -

100%.  I am always happy when she talks about making new friends

at the college and try never to interfere, beyond the normal parental

way.

I agree somewhat with you about the chat room issue.  However, at

barely even 12 years old, the "chat" she was reading was simply

inappropriate - mostly sexual in nature.  And this was on a

website that is geared to children - I found it absolutely amazing and

reprehensible on the part of the web creators.  Anyway, those

types of things will always be out there and I believe it is my job, to

filter what I think is inappropriate until she is old enough to make

her own decisions.  Yes, I realize that nearly all kids will be

curious about things of this nature.  I just don't believe that

chat rooms are the right place to be "learning."   I am here

to discuss absolutely anything relating to ANYTHING and I have told her

this.  On several ocassions, we have discussed subjects that I

could never have discussed with my Mom. 

I do really appreciate your comments.  I think they make good

sense.  It is always good to be reminded not to forget about

Nina's point of view on things. 

You sound like a good caring parent.  Your children are lucky.

Thanks again,

Lori

[HLG]

hi Lori,

There's an American newsletter/website dedicated to helping parents

make rules for chatrooms, handling discussions about media, etc. I was

a bit skeptic at first (worried it was some kind of freak right-wing

christian thing) but not at all: it's managed by parents who want

healthy kids from the "Media generation".  it is very well-done

and sound. they also give their opinions of TV shows, films, books,

music, video games, etc...

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/

The columns that most apply to your daughter's situation would be

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/newsletter/archive.php?id=2005-06-10

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/newsletter/archive.php?id=2005-08-19

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/newsletter/archive.php?id=2006-01-20

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/newsletter/archive.php?id=2005-08-05

Here's a website that should be safe for 11-14 year olds:

http://www.okapi-jebouquine.com/

(click forum for unsynchronized discussion - no IM available)

http://www.takatrouver.net/forum/index.php3

(for 8-12 mostly, requires parental permission )

search engine to kids and teens:

http://www.kidadoweb.com/

(can be your daughter's opening page?)

At first I was concerned your daughter might be bullied; teenage girls

can be vicious and the old "stick and stones" advice simply doesn't

apply.  A change in participation and grades usually indicate that

"something" has happened. You're lucky she has such a concerned

teacher. Overreacting seems such a better alternative than ' I wish I

had"...

Good luck and keep us updated.

[Lori]

HLG - thanks so much for the data.  I will check them all out Monday when I have the time.

Still digging out of about 15 cms of snow !

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Alcazar"]

I think quite a lot of what people say about chatrooms is knee-jerk

reaction, and can be taken with a pinch of salt. It's certainly no

worse than what you'd overhear in the playground, cafe, disco, etc.

What you MUST do is to stress, then stress again, then stress again,

the dangers that CAN exist, and the rules for safe conduct.

[/quote]

In chatrooms, I don't think it is just the safe behaviour thing that

has to be considered. With playground, cafe, disco etc, they're all

face-to-face encounters and probably involve several people or a group.

Participation in a chat room is solo and - as people have probably

discovered even here on LF, TF etc - an aggressive response, perhaps

sarcastic, belittling a view - can be quite wounding... and we're

adults. I think.[^o)]

A 12-year-old getting a screenful of abuse - quite possibly from people

his/her age - would be a discomfitting experience. Cliques can exist

and bullying can happen online just as much as face-to-face and can

play on the mind in the same way but, because it's not physical, can be

difficult for a child to articulate and discuss. Saying to a parent "I'm upset because Buffy2000 says I've got the personality of a worm and I will never have a boyfriend"

is laughable... until you consider it may be said directly to the child

at 10 o'clock at night in their bedroom. Home, unlike a disco, isn't

neutral territory: it should be a safe space. Anyway, my point is that

unmoderated chatrooms for tweens / teens can be quite vicious places

and if children are going to spend

time in them I think it's better for 2 or 3 of them to participate in

front of one pc screen. Any unpleasant remarks received are then shared

and diluted. So long as this little clique don't then become the

bullies...[6]

[Alcazar]

Hmmm, some well thought out and deep responses. Interesting. There's nothing I'd disgree with in any post, and obviously, we don't either have the full story, nor do we actually know the young girl.

My youngest uses MSN, and has done on a regular basis since he was about 13, BUT: he isn't EVER phased by what anyone says to him, (as some VERY rude teachers at his comprehensive school found to their cost), he's the ultimate "smart *rse" as far as responses are concerned, so unlikely to suffer any fools on there gladly. He just blocks people who annoy him.

Best of luck Lori, you come over as a really good parent, and one who cares deeply. I am sure you and Nina will come through this slight bump, and be happy again.

Alcazar

[Lori]

Catalpa - I think you make some wise points.  One of the problems

I have with chat rooms is that they seem to be accessible by

anyone.  Yes, I have seen those ones that say "you have to be a

certain age, etc." but all you have to do is click that you ARE of that

certain age, whether you are or not. I guess that is why we have Parental Control software - thank goodness.

I find it somewhat amazing that websites geared FOR children have chat

rooms where adult conversation is going on.  I also find it

upsetting that searches can be made to obtain email addresses that fall

into a certain category - age, sex, etc.  This opens us up to

unsolicited emails from people we do not know.   I don't know

how many times I have been online and received an invitation to talk to

someone who is a complete stranger.  Is there some way to block

this from happening?  I just refuse the conversation and block the

person attempting to communicate, but it would be nice if I never got

the invitation in the first place.

In order to be as careful as I can, ALL chat rooms and forums are

blocked on our computer.  If you don't have the password, you

cannot chat or view certain websites.  My daughter does not have a

computer in her room.  The family computer is in the "family /

den" room where the TV is.  As my husband put it, if she wants to

talk with her classmates, she can talk on the phone, our local and

national calls are free.  No issue there.

The Internet offers some wonderful things, but it comes with some nasty ones too.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="Alcazar"]

My youngest uses MSN, and has done on a regular basis since he was about 13, BUT: he isn't EVER phased by what anyone says to him, (as some VERY rude teachers at his comprehensive school found to their cost), he's the ultimate "smart *rse" as far as responses are concerned, so unlikely to suffer any fools on there gladly. He just blocks people who annoy him.

[/quote]

 

Good for him. [:D]

 

I considered adding – but then didn’t because it sounded a bit sexist! – that chatroom participation / concern over what’s said tends to be more of a girl thing. Boys like the quick, impersonal hit of a text msg or, if they use chatrooms, it’s often very focussed in content – such as football or car related. The majority of the participants in less-focussed "issues” and “making friends" chatrooms are girls. I was involved in developing an education website for 10 – 16 year-olds a few years ago and looked at a lot of research on forums and chatrooms, usage patterns etc: we decided if we did include a chatroom, it would be live only at specific times and actively (live) moderated to take account of some of the challenges I've described. 

 

Lori – I wasn’t suggesting that Nina herself had a pc in her bedroom – but I wanted to explain the point that I believe the commonly understood safety online guidelines aren’t the only consideration.

 

I think you can avoid unwanted “invitations to chat” by setting MSM to hide your profile – probably via the connection / privacy tabs. As it is, it sounds as though people can access your profile. Someone with more familiarity with MSM will no doubt advise you – posting the question in the LF Satellite / TV / Internet forum is probably easiest.

 

BTW, Lori… does your daughter know you post on Living France??? [:D][:O]

 

 

[Lori]

Catalpa - Yes she does know, but I don't think she would really want to

take the time to try to navigate it in order to find my posts. 

However, if she did, she would find that they don't really say anything

that I hadn't already said to her.  I told her I would monitor all

of her computer actions and I made it clear that meant ALL.  

I doubt she would take any interest in this site ( no offense to the rest of us who do )..

[Teamedup]

Catalpa I do not believe that it has anything what so ever to do with our children as to what we adults  read or look at or post on, come to think.

Even when they are adults it wouldn't be any of their business, as it would not be my business as to what they  do.

 

I think that you are being sensible Lori, trust is not something that is an accrue, now it will have to be worked at. We are humans and we all have our foibles and weaknesses and expecting an almost 12 year old to say I won't do something again and her never actually do it again may not be so easy. Especially as it isn't 'grave' so far.

 

Saying that, I really do understand that school is suffering  and she has been doing something that I would not have liked even my sons to do, but as I said, I don't think that it is that serious yet and even if it takes a bit of time, is a situation that I reckon that you can bring under control. I most certainly know that the internet can be addictive and your girl has had this 'secret' part of her life which also must have it's own allure too and something she could end up missing a lot.

 

I have had friends with daughters who have been in similar situations, well one who was far far worse than this.

 

I hope that the teacher keeps in touch as they have said as it would be good to have an ally at school.