The Bac has started

[woolybanana]

The Bac 2012 has begun with the exam in Philosophy. Perhaps some members might be interested in the subjects and even exert their brains to try answers:

For students in the Literature stream:

- "Que gagne-t-on en travaillant?"  

- "Toute croyance est-elle contraire à la raison?"  

- Explication d'un texte de Spinoza "Traité théologico-politique" 

For Science students:

- "Serions-nous plus libres sans l'Etat?" 

- Avons-nous le devoir de chercher la vérité?"  

- une explication d'un texte de Rousseau, "Emile".  

And in Economics: 

- "Travailler, est-ce seulement être utile?"  

- "Peut-il exister des désirs naturels?" 

[idun]

Well I could write lots about all of those.

Still a consultant I used to have to see in France, was still smarting from her poor marks in philo, as she was, at least, supposed to regurgitate her lessons, rather than her own thoughts and ideas. Has it changed? 

[NormanH]

I doubt I would pass. My answer to "Que gagne-t-on en travaillant?" would be 'the Smic' if you are lucky'

[idun]

but surely that should be a perfectly valid answer as long as you made sure that five words turned into 500[6]

[NormanH]

The 'right' answer is here

http://lewebpedagogique.com/bac-l/bac-l-2012-philo-sujet-corrige-dissertation-sujet-n-1-que-gagne-t-on-en-travaillant/

This idea of a 'correct' or corrigé answer is far from the type of marking I have known, but it is very 'French'

The answers to the other topics can be found at

http://lewebpedagogique.com/bac/

I don't believe that I am completely stupid, but I have a problem in following this:

Toute croyance est-elle contraire à la raison ?

 si la croyance est spontanément associée à ce qui n’est pas fondé en raison, à l’irrationnel :

- la raison ne se réduit pas au rationnel, l’excès de raison peut être

déraisonnable (il convenait de distinguer les 2 sens de raison :

rationnel/raisonnable)

- l’irrationnel ne se réduit pas à ce qui est contraire à la raison, il

peut aussi être ce qui est au-delà de la raison, étranger à la raison (

« le cœur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point » selon Pascal).

- Le sujet invitait donc à s’interroger sur les fondements de la

croyance ( le « toute » invitait à se demander si justement on ne peut

pas distinguer des croyances rationnelles et des croyances

irrationnelles) et sur ce qui est contraire ou non à la raison, sur la

distinction entre raisonnable et rationnel

[woolybanana]

Looking at the answer to the work question, I am surprised that much more is not made of the work as release and work as pleasure arguement, in such areas as creation and physical fulfilment. It seems that the narrow definitions of work as half the contract for remuneration is over-emphasized. Is this perhaps the result of a Socialist narrowness in the education system? All of which is sad, as are the unique references of Nietzhe and Marx, in the context of a Literary Bac which could have encouraged wider exploration.

[idun]

Naughty WB, you know that they are not allowed to have free thought about these things. They have to write wot they are supposed to write, azziz in the program and absolutely nothing more and nothing less. [6]

[YCCMB]

I'm still stunned at this idea that  such questions have to have a "right" answer, and assume that marks, if given, for making a reasoned, logical argument to support whatever response one wishes to put forward are scant, if there are any at all.

How often I've been on the receiving end of the output from this "right answer" concept...usually on training courses where the delegates were expected to complete a series of tasks and, through (heaven forfend) experiential learning, draw conclusions as to which methods of executing tasks and working in teams were likely to produce the most effective results.

If I had a € for every French delegate that had pulled me aside and whispered "so what was the RIGHT answer?" I'd be able to help the Greeks out of their current financial embarrassment and still buy you all a drink.

Still, it's nice to know that the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker can stop in their daily grind and have a good ol' philosophical debate, innit?

"Oui, mais...(as Eddie Izzard would say) le singe est dans l'arbre"

[NormanH]

I have some English friends who used to live in France and who have brilliant children, three of whom went to Oxford.

The eldest got a 'moyen' of 19 in his BAC except in Philo, where he always made the mistake of thinking for himself.

He is now a Senior Consultant in London, and I still remember laughing with him when he explained that to get good marks in English he had to write 'French English' , completely unidiomatic, and sometimes plain wrong,  to flatter the teacher's rather stilted preferences.

I share Betty's experience  of  the  French obsession with the right answer.

The idea of process as something interesting and valuable is very alien, as is the idea of transferable skills.

[5-element]

[quote user="NormanH"]
I share Betty's experience  of  the  French obsession with the right answer.
[/quote]

And me too, ever so.

In retrospect, I believe this is what drove me out of France in the late 60's! In some tortuous way, it might be something that drives people to suicide or more gentle forms of self-destruction!

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="NormanH"]I

he had to write 'French English' , completely unidiomatic, and sometimes plain wrong,  to flatter the teacher's rather stilted preferences.

[/quote]

No1 son got a mark of 4 in his bac blanc. His moyen for everything is 13.9 (so you can see what effect a 4 has!)

His teacher said..and i quote..."what you wrote was technically correct, I just didn't like it"

[idun]

HSD, 4, that is disgraceful. Not your child, the unfair marking.[:@]