Théière Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Can't disagree Sc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Powerdiesel wrote: "I do not consider French plugs to be either flimsy nor poorly designed." We beg to differ, perhaps you've never had a plug body come away from the inner while trying to remove it from the socket. Or found a bare pin that's come out of a plug still in a socket. No I have never experienced either of those things, however I have only been using French plugs for 8 years so perhaps there is time."As an electrical engineer of many years experience I prefer the the French system - that is of course only my personal view, others may differ" And so do I, until the supply gets to the socket. No switch on the socket, no (correct) fuse to protect the flex, no earth prong on the three pin plug so it can be plugged into a two pin socket, no effective cable clamp (generally), some sockets with grips rather than screws that pull out of the wall with the plug ........I think the designers of the French electrical plug and telephone plug received each other's design briefs! I don't find un-switched sockets a problem. The MCB protects the circuit. Who in their right mind would attempt to plug a 3 pin plug into a two pin socket ?, I don't have any two pin sockets so it's not an issue for me.All my French plugs have cable grips, I have not seen one without. I believe that the sockets with grips are now no longer approved, I could be wrong on that point. I don't have any anyway.edit: my comments regarding flimsiness and cable security don't apply to moulded-on plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 "I don't find un-switched sockets a problem. The MCB protects the circuit." A 20A fuse or MCB doesn't properly protect the 5A flex going to a small appliance!"Who in their right mind would attempt to plug a 3 pin plug into a two pin socket? "I correct myself- there is no such thing as a 3 PIN French plug is there? (except for the 20A system) "Attempt" doesn't come into it, it goes in easily and the sockets are readily available. Not everyone would understand the issues as you do.Referring to aftermarket plugs:"All my French plugs have cable grips, I have not seen one without."Yes, but some are the cam type, others rely on the cable staying wedged between two plastic legs, both are ineffective over the full range of cable diameters allowing movement of the cable in the plug and in some cases withdrawal. Only those larger plugs with screwed clamps are as effective as a UK one.You may not have sockets with grip fittings but more houses must have them than the screw fittings, and griffe fittings for replacements are still readily available as they are not as far as I know, interchangeable. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think that I understand what you are referring to regarding inserting a 3 pin plug into a 2 pin socket, I thought that there were protections against this so have just done a test amongst my stock.Under normal circumstances a 3 pole French plug cannot be introduced into a French 2 pole socket, the female terminals are recessed about 12mm into the housing and only an oval shaped French 2 pin plug (fiche) will enter allowing the male pins to penetrate (this posting is getting steamier) [:D]One could cut back the plastic shroud but then you will find that the pin diameter on the 3 pole plug is larger and will not enter into the female terminals, you could then drill out the plastic opening and force it in I guess............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I stand corrected on this. I was thinking of older two pole sockets like this and the old ones that are sometimes mounted below a light switch: http://www.maison.com/brico-travaux/electricite/changer-prise-electrique-sans-terre-7366/galerie/32812/edit- where there's very little recess.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oooh la!, or however you spell that French expression of shock [:'(]Doesnt look too safe, bet it has the larger recieving sockets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I was also wondering about these two pin sockets and noted you can’t buy them now you have not been able to for some years (the ones under bedside light switches).I have removed many English 13A plugs from equipment we bought with us. I was interested by the fact that on devices like DCD players etc the cord actually had a two pin European plug and that was then placed inside a UK 13A plug. I got one out to check and the two pin plug does not indicate which pin is live or neutral so I assume it can fit into the 13A UK plug any way round.During my replacement I came across several different "after market plugs" which had varying types of cable clamps and again depending on the cable used (table lamp is a good example) might not even grip the cable at all. So all in all it seems to me that neither system is perfect and indeed both can suffer from the same problems.Personally speaking what I find really (and I mean really) annoying is I can travel in Europe and plug my mobile phone, tablet and laptop chargers in to any socket without an adapter, the exception being the UK of course. Can't help but wonder why this is especially as so many countries have one system yet the UK has something quite different. Still I suppose it is all for the best, it's nice to be different I suppose.Oh and by the way an English persons house caught fire last month up in the village. The cause was a 2kw UK portable oil filled radiator running through a UK to French adapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Lucky for the insurers then!Otherwise it would have been difficult to explain away.Bet they use the same excuse to get out of paying for flood damage!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Quillan said: "Oh and by the way an English persons house caught fire last month up in the village. The cause was a 2kw UK portable oil filled radiator running through a UK to French adapter."Bet it was the French bit that caught fire! (please imagine a whistling icon here)Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Q, didn't make it very clear, was it the 2kw radiator or was it the adapter? as it is only just 8 amps not massively power hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="Théière"]Q, didn't make it very clear, was it the 2kw radiator or was it the adapter? as it is only just 8 amps not massively power hungry. [/quote]It was the adapter that caught fire. We still use a couple for battery chargers and moulded transformers like for an 8 port Ethernet switch so I had a look at the pins. The better ones have solid pins but the cheaper ones have press moulded pins. My guess is they had one of the cheaper ones. Our UK vacuum cleaner used to make the adapter get hot but then it only got used for short periods. They are really designed for chargers, electric tooth brushes and things like hair driers where you use high current but for a short period.We keep a couple for UK guests who have forgotten to bring one. I threw all the cheap ones away and only have the type with solid pins now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="Théière"]A point on adapters which not everyone may know, they are widely available with smaller/thinner pins like table lamps have for 6amp max applications. There is a slightly fatter pinned version available which can take higher loads. Just checking through my catalogues they are rated at a max of 7.5 amp so still to low for 2kw heaters for any real length of time. [/quote]These.Not These. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I regret saying "why not buy adapters" earlier without noting that we must stay within the rating of the adapter. It seems that the pin diameter isn't an indication of the rating though Théière . I see that my Asda ones which have the thinner pins are marked 7.5 amp (although 6 amp is in line with small french 2-pin plugs). Also "temporary use only", but despite this, looking inside my adapters at the action of the contacts and size of the bus bars/continuity of earth pins I'm confident that they'll give no problem in sustained use in low power applications such as freesat boxes, battery chargers, etc., and the pins are the same size as those plugs on similar french items.In our gites it's only the Humax boxes and one 750W vac cleaner that use adapters, everything else is French. We use adapters ourselves for phone chargers, and some rechargeable and mains power tools. The thinner pin ones may be manufactured as "europlug" compatible, capable of fitting sockets in different countries. At least with the snug body fit and the earth pin they are unlikely to get knocked out of a 2-pin + earth socket as easily an after market French 2-pin plug is.Anyone who can't wait another moment to read more on this fascinating subject will find the website of the Plug and Socket Museum (oh yes there is) interesting. http://fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Europlug1.htmlSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 In theory the thinner pins restrict the adaptor to the lower current rating of the French 2 pin plugs with the thinner pins, makes sense as there will undoubtedly be less contact area, I have a feeling that the French 2 pin plugs are rated at higher than 7.5 amps.But in any case they will sustain much higher loads, I used one with my 3hp compressor for many years and when I redid the outside of my building with a crepi sprayer the compressor was running pretty well flat out all day long.However be very very carefull, these plugs, at least all of mine have a dangerous defect that will cause them to catch fire with much lower currents although hopefully phone chargers etc will draw to little to overheat them.You have looked inside your adaptors so I assume you dont have the problem mine have but many people wouldt do so. On mine the pins are threaded at the internal end and the contact is held on by a nut and non spring washer or no washer at all, there is no key or anything to prevent the pin rotating and loosening the nut, over time they work loose especially if plugged in and out regularly and will overheat on a relatively moderate current, I had one burn away to charred plastic so I did a forensic autopsy on it.Re the fire in a French house, there muwt have been some combustible material in the vicinity because the adaptor plugs, the french sockets, the backboxes, the wiring, the gaines etc are all made from self extinguishing materials, they will melt, they will char but they should not create a flame, only something like a curtain over it would do so, even non ignifuge placo does not spread fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTEAnyone who can't wait another moment to read more on this fascinating subject will find the website of the Plug and Socket Museum (oh yes there is) interesting. http://fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Europlug1.htmlMock ye not Steve!As the great-grandaughter of a pioneering manufacturer of electrical accessories, I found the link fascinating and have sent it on to my brother who is the family archivist!Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I enjoyed it as well, sometimes you come across an unusual socket output on a piece of equipment and need to find a compatible plug, for that its a good resource.I identified the lighting plugs/sockets on my folding caravan thanks to the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="Théière"][quote user="Théière"]A point on adapters which not everyone may know, they are widely available with smaller/thinner pins like table lamps have for 6amp max applications. There is a slightly fatter pinned version available which can take higher loads. Just checking through my catalogues they are rated at a max of 7.5 amp so still to low for 2kw heaters for any real length of time. [/quote]These.Not These.[/quote]I have not seen the botom one before. The top one I had several that did not have solid pins which it looks like that one has. They are sheet rolled once with a joint running down and the top folded to make it round(ish). As I said I threw those way and just have the solid ones now. If memory serves is it not all about cross section so I thought the solid ones to be superior in that more current could be drawn through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="Chancer"]Re the fire in a French house, there muwt have been some combustible material in the vicinity because the adaptor plugs, the french sockets, the backboxes, the wiring, the gaines etc are all made from self extinguishing materials, they will melt, they will char but they should not create a flame, only something like a curtain over it would do so, even non ignifuge placo does not spread fire.[/quote]You used to buy these adapters down our local market in the UK (Docklands), a pack of five for a couple of quid. They were probably made in China and basically 'knock off' and probably the materials were not the right ones to conform. I don't know exactly where the person bought theirs or how well they were made but it might be they were cheap 'knock offs' and not made of the right noncombustable material.I don't really understand why you would use them if you bought something over from the UK perminantly. I would have thought it more logical to just change the plug. I bought one today for a person I know. Side entry, good cable screw down clamp and it cost €3.50 in our expensive local shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Quillan said:"I don't really understand why you would use them if you bought something over from the UK perminantly"Well, one reason is of course that in the case of chargers for phones and power tools, the UK plug and charger are one and the same, and you've got to use an adapter. Another is the UK guarantee. Although cutting the plug off may not in theory invalidate the guarantee, the chances are it would result in unwanted hassle if you come to return the item.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote user="SC"]Quillan said: "I don't really understand why you would use them if you bought something over from the UK perminantly" Well, one reason is of course that in the case of chargers for phones and power tools, the UK plug and charger are one and the same, and you've got to use an adapter. Another is the UK guarantee. Although cutting the plug off may not in theory invalidate the guarantee, the chances are it would result in unwanted hassle if you come to return the item. Steve[/quote]Well I think we covered the things before that you really need them for like the chargers etc but what other things? What things would stop you cutting off the plug because of garantee? I mean I wouldn't buy new in the UK to bring to France I would buy them there or in other EU countries like Germany or Belgium where they are cheaper. Other things we bought for instance like washing machines, fridges etc were out of garantee anyway and even if they were inside guarantee I would not consider senting them back to the UK to be fixed, it would not be economical. But then most things never break these days during warranty, one day after it has run out perhaps but not within. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 In my flat the only adaptor is for my mobile phone charger which has the transformer moulded into the UK 3 pin plug, everything else has been changed to French plugs.Where the adaptors were used a lot is in my workshop and on each of the 4 levels of my chantier, why? Well because most of my power tools get taken back to the UK at some time, the core tools several times a year, I have many UK extension leads and whilst I have bought a few French ones I dont want to chuck out the others.The reliance on adaptors is minimal now as in the workshop I have 4 gang UK and French sockets fitted all around, its mainly when I want to plug a UK plug into a French extension lead or a French socket in either my flat or one of thhe finished ones, bizaarely I have a few UK to French adaptors plugged in at strategic locations and I have two French 4 way trailing adaptors with built in RCD and MCD bought from a rédérie that I have equipped with a UK 3 pin plug!On the subject of buying French plugs, €3.50 is a huge and absurd amount of money but that is the market price, many are higher, remember that I am fitting out 6 fully firnished flats and most of the electrical equipment is sourced in the UK so I have loads of plugs to change, somewhere between 50 and 100 all told including ultimately all my power tools, for 8 years I have been looking for a cheap source, even to buy in bulk if necessary but never found one, I have been begrudgingly paying the €3.50 as and when I had to.Then last year I finally found them at a decent price, well under one Euro, the same place that does very reasonably priced bike spares and accessories, E Leclerc [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Many thanks to everyonethat has contributed to this topic – it has certainly been entertaining readingthe different arguments. I think I have learnt more or less what I need toknow, but I do have a couple of questions:Firstly, what is meantby 'single pole' and 'bi-pole'. Secondly, I now understand that it is okay puttingFrench plugs on pretty much everything I'm planning on taking over, but whatabout large, high-power items, such as microwaves – is it okay to put Frenchplugs on those too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Sorry about the last post, not quite sure why it contained all that gibberish - was perfectly okay on the preview; then when I posted I couldn't edit it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 [quote user="Adrian"]Secondly, I now understand that it is okay puttingFrench plugs on pretty much everything I'm planning on taking over, but whatabout large, high-power items, such as microwaves – is it okay to put Frenchplugs on those too?[/quote]Absolutely fine; we did just that here with our combination Samsung and it lasted for years, in fact until it was just shy of 20 years old.It is much safer than using an adapter.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 [quote user="Adrian"]Firstly, what is meantby 'single pole' and 'bi-pole'. Secondly, I now understand that it is okay puttingFrench plugs on pretty much everything I'm planning on taking over, but whatabout large, high-power items, such as microwaves – is it okay to put Frenchplugs on those too?[/quote]Most posters on here are single but woolybear and a few others maybe bi-pole which is why they get invited to all the parties ;-)Microwaves aren't really high power unless they have a grill, normally only around 1400 watts which is safe on a adapter as it's only 5.8 amps and as previously mentioned you are ok to 7.5 amps which at 240v is 1800 watts max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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