Importing and registering a car

[jonesy]

Sorry to be a bore or appear to be just plain simple but in the Driving forum FAQ's there is a very good post about this but states at the end "not applicable to Japanese 'grey' imports". So, as a Toyota MR2 grey import is what I have got and I have received any amount of contradicting advise, tell me; is there a sure fire process to achieve immatriculation?

I have changed the headlights to RH dip and have a valid CT but the car has an 11 digit VIN but DRIRE wants 17 so computer says NO!

I have contacted Toyota France who have provided a 'Questionaire No 2' (Vehicule produit pour un pays hors d'un pays membre de l'union europenne) which needs to be completed by my local Toyota garage. This is presently where the process is stalled as they just scratch their heads whilst reading the requirement to answer questions such as 'Poids total authorisé en charge' and 'Poids total roulant authorisé' and I get the (by now expected) Gallic Shrug and a sudden inexplicable and simulaneous loss of any previous English language skills and a new inability to comprehend my spoken French. In an effort to circumvent the latter I visited again with a local French friend who is a mechanic with much the same result. Or rather lack of!

I would like to be legal on the road and rarely take the car out but is there any possibility of light at the end of the tunnel?

If I had any hair left I would be pulling it out.

Any/all advice will be welcomed.

Jonesy

[Chancer]

[quote user="jonesy"]

I have contacted Toyota France who have provided a 'Questionaire No 2' (Vehicule produit pour un pays hors d'un pays membre de l'union europenne) which needs to be completed by my local Toyota garage. This is presently where the process is stalled as they just scratch their heads whilst reading the requirement to answer questions such as 'Poids total authorisé en charge' and 'Poids total roulant authorisé' and I get the (by now expected) Gallic Shrug and a sudden inexplicable and simulaneous loss of any previous English language skills and a new inability to comprehend my spoken French. In an effort to circumvent the latter I visited again with a local French friend who is a mechanic with much the same result. Or rather lack of!

I would like to be legal on the road and rarely take the car out but is there any possibility of light at the end of the tunnel?

If I had any hair left I would be pulling it out.

Any/all advice will be welcomed.

Jonesy

[/quote]

Jonesy, it is not the local garages responsibility, it is up to you to find the info or if it cannot be found, to make it up [:D]

P.T.A.C. = authorised payload

P.T.R.A = gross vehicle weight, i.e. the kerbweight (P.T.V. perhaps, check the formulaire) plus the payload.

As long as the 3 figures correspond and the payload is not stupidly high or low no-one will be the wiser.

[Sunday Driver]

PTAC = GVW (gross vehicle weight) or MAM (maximum authorised mass).  That the total allowable weight for your car and it's payload.

PTRA = GTW (gross train weight).  That the total allowable weight for your car, it's payload, and a trailer.

You'll find the values on your V5C and on the manufacturer's plate (usually under the bonnet).

[;-)]

 

[Chancer]

That will teach me to work from memory!

I had all sorts of problems with these figures, my VIN plate and handbook did not correspond, the DRIRE wanted them for the formulaire to apply for the attestation, and in this case as my vehicle was already on the database I had to give the correct ones.

A chicken and egg scenario played out, the correct ratings are marked on the certificate, I needed these to apply for the certificate but had no way of finding the info.

After some gentle but persuasive negotiation common sense won through, the clerk printed off the attestation and agreed to leave it visible on his desk while he went for a call of nature, apparently it was more than his job was worth to show it to me [:D]

[jonesy]

Thanks for the info folks.

Re the Toyota form, the instruction was to get a Toyota agent to complete it but this could be due to commercial interests. I have considered 'estimating' weights and other answers but was concerned that DRIRE would want some form of collateral. Similarly, I have discovered from a world wide owners register that the 'missing' 6 digits from my VIN are pretty much the same for all MR2s so I could blag that  as well but of course, they don't appear on the V5. The documentation that came with the car is in Japanese and my knowledge of written Japanese is somewhat shaky.

I am concerned that if I get too smart I will dig myself a hole from which there will be no escape.

My insurance agent says that he can insure a UK registered car ad infinitum but this conflicts with much other information. There is a widely held view that there is only a small difference between insurance companies and thieves (if and when the ferment hits the windmill) so to quote Mandy Rice-Davies, "He would say that wouldn't he" and I feel I could find myself waving a useless piece of paper in Chamberlain fashion as I am taken to the Bastille!

So, am I legal? I have a current CT and French insurance on a UK plate but there's this nagging voice which says "ah, but if a child runs out in front of you . . . ."

Your thoughts and experience will be appreciated.

Jonesy

[baypond]

Others will know better, but you can not have a UK plate with CT and french insurance indefintely. There is a time limit of around 6 months which is frequently ignored. In my case I received a notification from local prefecture that if I didn't get my carte grise they would take action.The car had been in France for about 12 months and existed for the first 6 months under UK insurance, plate etc etc. However a friend has not tranfered plates for two years and no one has contacted them about it.

 

[Sunday Driver]

Jonesy

You are getting bogged down in what is a pretty straightforward process. 

Your model was built for the Japanese home market so it's not officially type approved for use in the EU.  That means it has to pass a single vehicle approval inspection before a conformity certificate can be issued.

The inspection is carried out by the DRIRE and they will require a partial conformity certificate and model technical notice from Toyota France so they can see which elements of your car comply with French regulations and which ones don't.  Those that don't will have to be put through independent tests, eg emissions, braking systems, etc.

Toyota have two choices:

- they can either issue a certificate saying your vehicle does not comply with any rules, in which case you're fairly stuffed.  Or,

- they can ask you to supply details of your car so they can see which bits of it match an 'approved model' and tick those off as OK.  If you are lucky, they'll issue a certificate covering most of the car, leaving you with some minor changes to make.

That's why you need to be accurate in filling out this form....[;-)]

 

 

[Sunday Driver]

Just to clarify the rules and timescales regarding imported vehicles.

In order to use an imported vehicle on the roads here, you must first account for import VAT. In the case of vehicles over six months old and/or with over 6,000kms on the clock, there is no VAT to pay.  Upon production of the vehicle's registration document and proof of address, the local tax office will issue a quittus fiscal (VAT receipt) which you have to produce to the prefecture when registering the vehicle. 

Unlike the UK, where you are not permitted to drive an imported car prior to registration, France allows a period of grace.  The QF contains your authority to drive the vehicle under it's foreign plates for up to one month whilst you complete the registration formalities.  This period is extended to four months if the vehicle needs to be submitted for a DRIRE single vehicle approval inspection.

Anyone continuing to use a vehicle on the roads outside these timescales without a carte grise is in breach of article R322-1 of the code de la route (Délivrance du certificat d'immatriculation Demande) and liable to a 135€ fine.

 

 

 

[clarksinfrance]

Our experience may help Jonesy.

We have a Grey import Mazda Eunos (MX5) for 3 years we took the thing back and forward to the UK, because we couldn't find a way of registering it here in France. We tried to get a CofC but obviously (now we realise why) it didn't exist, so just seemed to come up against a brick wall. We then heard in a conversation about someone elses experience, about a certificate of non-conformity, again we tried Mazda France but this was not forthcoming either, (again we now realise why). By now we had pretty much had enough of this mess, so in a last resort, posted on another forum about the hassles, and had a wonderful reply from Sunday Driver which gave us more hope. Apparently we had been asking for the wrong certificate, we neaded a certificate of partial conformity, we asked for, and received this from Mazda France, and suddenly everything fell into place. We went to the DRIRE office with the CdCP and they booked the car in for a single vehicle test, this was duely taken, and a couple of issues were noted. We had already changed the headlights, but a "plaque de constructeur" as Jonesy described, was missing, apparently most key cutters are au fait with making and providing these, but in plastic. I didn't want plastic in the engine bay, so searched for an aluminium one. This is what we came up with: http://plaqueconstructeur.free.fr/ cost €30 and was returned within 5 days. We had to move the single rear fog light to the left hand side of the car, and have a noise test carried out.The testing station gave us contact details for the relevant police body that carry out noise testing. This noise test was arranged for a couple of months later at a town about 30mins from us. We met the officers from the Police National at a gendarmerie, who then took us to a quiet trading estate where they could carry out the test. They asked us to drive up and down the road, at a certain speed, so thay could use their noise meter, when we offered them the drive, it was a fight to see which one could get in the car first. Any way the test was completed, and a certificate "Controles des Niveaux Sonores" was issued (no cost). A copy of this was sent to the Vehicle testing station, along with a copy of the receipt of the Plaque, and we waited for the "Proces-Verbal de Reception a Titre Isole" to be returned. We waited and waited and waited, four moths passed and so we rang them to see what was going on, only to be told, that the officer had the details on his desk that day (quelle surprise) to complete. About a week later the certificate arrived, so in the next week or two, will go to the Prefecture with all the docs and get the new immatriculation. So: if you ask for, and get the correct paperwork, it is actually quite simple and in our case quite cheap (€90 for headlights and €30 for the plaque) to get all the paperwork together, I guess I will find out how much the registration will cost soon, it is a 10CV car, but over 10 yrs old now, so I am guessing about €200 for the certificate d'immatriculation.

Good luck.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Just to clarify the rules and timescales regarding imported vehicles.

In order to use an imported vehicle on the roads here, you must first account for import VAT. In the case of vehicles over six months old and/or with over 6,000kms on the clock, there is no VAT to pay.  Upon production of the vehicle's registration document and proof of address, the local tax office will issue a quittus fiscal (VAT receipt) which you have to produce to the prefecture when registering the vehicle. 

Unlike the UK, where you are not permitted to drive an imported car prior to registration, France allows a period of grace.  The QF contains your authority to drive the vehicle under it's foreign plates for up to one month whilst you complete the registration formalities.  This period is extended to four months if the vehicle needs to be submitted for a DRIRE single vehicle approval inspection.

Anyone continuing to use a vehicle on the roads outside these timescales without a carte grise is in breach of article R322-1 of the code de la route (Délivrance du certificat d'immatriculation Demande) and liable to a 135€ fine.[/quote]

As usual a crystal clear explanation, (although there will STILL be those who refuse to believe it) but for the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever may I just add one point:

The above applies to French residents, non residents can use their car for 6 months during which time it must remain fully UK road legal.

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

The above applies to French residents, non residents can use their car for 6 months during which time it must remain fully UK road legal.

[/quote]

I think you will find that's not quite right.

"L'immatriculation d'un véhicule dans un département français ne

s'impose à un ressortissant étranger qu'à partir du moment où il y a

déclaré son domicile."

[AnOther]

My French is shaky but I think that says exactly what I did, if you are French resident you have one month to register from the day you became so.

Are you confusing French Resident with French National ?

[jonesy]

Well thanks to everyone, some excellent advise and experience.

Having read clarksoninfrance's experience with the Mazda I think that somehow, my request for a certificate of partial conformity has been missunderstood and I am in a loop for a full conformity version. I'll start again, submit a new request and try again.

Jonesy

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Just to clarify the rules and timescales regarding imported vehicles.

[/quote]

As this thread concerns people who live in France who are importing their vehicles, why was it necessary to introduce information relating to non-residents who were not importing their vehicles? [Www]

 

 

[Sunday Driver]

Jonesy

Full conformity certificates are only applicable for vehicles manufactured specifically for the French or EU markets and they are issued simply against the VIN number on your registration certificate.

The questionnaire that Toyota sent you relates to a vehicle produced for use outside the EU and the information they are asking you to provide is for the purpose of issuing your partial conformity certificate.

You are on the right track, so for Gawd's sake, don't start again and submit a new request....[;-)] 

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]As this thread concerns people who live in France who are importing their vehicles, why was it necessary to introduce information relating to non-residents who were not importing their vehicles? [Www] [/quote] So the six month rule is NOT within the intent of 'clarifying the rules and timescales regarding imported vehicles' and doesn't deserve a mention ?

Didn't intend to usurp you SD however baypond had already slightly wandered off topic with his reference to 6 months and we are all only too aware that there are those who will simply not be told and will tenaciously grasp at any little scrap of (mis) information which may tend to reinforce or justify their misconceptions and illegal staus.

Also, with the rather general nature of the title, there is no way of knowing that the subject is concerning residents, which BTW we are assuming as the OP is as he has not actually said he is, so many would likely read the thread and even if it is not directly relevant to them I don't think it's an altogether bad thing if they pick up a scrap of information [:)]

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]My French is shaky but I think that says exactly what I did, if you are French resident you have one month to register from the day you became so.

Are you confusing French Resident with French National ?

[/quote]

No I am not confused[:)]

It says basically, a foreigner only needs to register their vehicle in France when they become a resident of France.

[AnOther]

Which is exactly what I said,

[quote user="ErnieY"]The above applies to French residents, non

residents can use their car for 6 months during which time it must

remain fully UK road legal.[/quote]

So I don't understand the point you are trying to make [8-)]

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Which is exactly what I said,

[quote user="ErnieY"]The above applies to French residents, non

residents can use their car for 6 months during which time it must

remain fully UK road legal.[/quote]

So I don't understand the point you are trying to make [8-)]

[/quote]

"non

residents can use their car for 6 months"?

[AnOther]

Yes, and ?

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]Yes, and ?

[/quote]

I will leave it for you to work it out.[:D]

[AnOther]

What's to work out.

It's an EU regulation that a vehicle may remain in another state for a maximum of 6 months before requiring re-registration.

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]What's to work out.

It's an EU regulation that a vehicle may remain in another state for a maximum of 6 months before requiring re-registration.

[/quote]

Yes, If the person is going to be a resident in another EU  country, not as a visitor

Your post said, non residents can use the vehicle for six months without registering it, there is no time limit for a non resident.

[AnOther]

Mincing words now, if not Franch resident it matters not where a person or vehicle is from. In terms of registration I don't think directive 83/183EEC makes any distinction between vehicles originating in  EU states and the rest of the world.

Let's me put it another way without the reference to residency, a vehicle may not remain in an EU state for a period exceeding 6 months in any 12 without requiring registration.

There are exceptions for students and a few others but fundamentally it's registration after six months.

Going to have to go now as I've a plane to catch but happy to pick up later [;-)]

[dandaz]

Hi

 

So if I go to the drire with a 10 digit chassis number ,will the computer say no?