Injection a controler

[JohnRoss]

I noticed yesterday that as I pulled up in My Renault Scenic a message appeared on the display saying Injection a controler. It is now there all the time along with a demand to have the vehicle serviced which has been there for the last few weeks and it is due. I have read on French automotive forums that this message is not uncommon and there have been some worrying stories about people having rather large bills for work that may not have been necessary. I have noted that in some cases a change of glow plugs has solved the problem. The Renault Diesel Scenic seems to be ok in all other respects, no loss of power or strange smells, so I am wondering if anybody can shed some light on this?.............JR

[Jonzjob]

Perhapse you could get an answer from this lot John?

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=129

[JohnRoss]

Thanks for link and sorry the reply was so long but storm took out modem nearly two weeks ago and only just got new one today from SFR. Garage changed all four glow plugs and problem fixed for 176 euros and the forum suggests that others have had same solution to this message. Thanks and is nice to know one is not alone as it were..................JR

[Jonzjob]

Good fix John, both for the motor and the interweb!!

The car forums can be very good with lots of expert info. There must be one for about every car[:-))]

[Jonzjob]

Good fix John, both for the motor and the interweb!!

The car forums can be very good with lots of expert info. There must be one for about every car[:-))]

[JohnRoss]

Yes but one wonders if all four really needed changing. I had first taken the car to Roady's for its annual service and they promise to service all marques but they were defeated by this message and had advised me to take it to Renault garage. Had I known they could not handle it, don't think they had the computer test equipment for Renault Scenic, I would have had Renault do the whole thing. Still at least it is fixed. Noticed some folk on French auto forums had the same problem and the same solution. Renault said the short trips we mostly do were responsible for condensation problems and aging of the plugs but not being an expert we are too often in the position of having to take their word for it. No adverse opinion should be implied from this comment!...................Thanks again............JR

PS Roady's seem cheaper than Renault and offer service with change of two filters of your choice from oil, engine air intake, cab air intake, fuel for 109 euros which seems quite reasonable but although they say they check other things do they? Last year I had oil and fuel filter, got message on display saying fuel line blocked and loss of power just before service date, and this year oil and engine air intake. One wonders if a service every year is really necessary with low mileage but the car insists with messages at 12 month intervals! Any comment on this policy?

 

[Jonzjob]

No real idea as to the 12 month policy John, but if you think about it all of the heater plugs have been in te same place/time/conditions and if just one is failing then the others will probably not be far behind. So the choice is 4 trips/charges or one trip and pay for all 4 to be changed? No brainer for me mate?

As for the Scenique route, perhapse they only have the overhead, satillite view? Google Earth?[6][6][:-))]

[Benjamin]

A few years back in Spain I had starting problems. I took it to Pepe at the local garage and pantomimed the problem. Got on well with him but neither of us spoke very much of one another's language. Two hours he indicated. I returned and he showed me two injectors he had changed.

I thought at the time he must have had all four out to examine them but promptly forgot the incident. Back in France and the first cold snap produced the same starting problems. The other two injectors were changed.

Moral is: always change all four (or six if you're rich).

[JohnRoss]

Ok but do you not mean glow plugs/Bougies de préchauffage. One thing that suprises me is that they must be very quick to do their thing as the motor starts within a second or two of hitting the starter button. I assume they switch off once it starts. As you may gather I know little about diesel engines.............JR

[Chancer]

[quote user="JohnRoss"]

 Last year I had oil and fuel filter, got message on display saying fuel line blocked and loss of power just before service date, and this year oil and engine air intake. One wonders if a service every year is really necessary with low mileage but the car insists with messages at 12 month intervals! Any comment on this policy?[/quote]

I bet that was just a computer generated message and the lack of power was the engine management switching to limp home mode, when you look at the modern cars that cost pretty much what their predecessors did 10 years ago that are stuffed withh so much more gadgets and also things we may not want (but cost us an arm and a leg) you would conclude that the cost of parts has actually reduced but no they have risen massively especially the things that fail or have to be replaced, when you hear the horror stories of the huge garage bills inflated by the parts prices most have no choice but to accept that it is where the motor manufacturers make their money these days, they dont like losing the cash cow to the independants like Roady so make the systems more and more complicated so that they cannot reset error messages like glowplug warnings that may not even reflect actual failure (read on).

Modern cars even 15 years ago to pass the then emissions requirements had to be capable of running 100000 kms without any servicing or intervention and still remain within emissions (the requirements are probably even more exigent now) this was only possible with better performing oils, cleaner fuels, larger air/oil/fuel filters, modern cars dont need servicing anywhere near as much as their predecessors but the manufacturers want and need the servicing revenue.

I do the minimum of repairs and servicing and only when it is needed, mydiesel  car is approaching 300000 miles, I cahneg the engine oil and filter every year (sometimes it may slip 6 months) but anything else is monitored and only replaced when required which to date is never! The fuel filter I was going to change as a precaution on my first service but the pattern part would not allow the metal bracket to be closed up so I carry it as a spare now, the filter has done at least 120000 miles and no restriction yet. The air filter is the one I fitted 100000 miles ago, I have blown the leaves off once with the airline, I watch the fuel economy readout like a hawk and would know of even a 1% drop in economy/performance in fact it continues to improve.

The glowplugs are the original ones, garages would have replaced them many times over by now and the replacements would probably not have been of the same quality as the original. The glowplug warning light did start flashing last Saturday when I was on a long journey towing a (too) large and loaded trailer, I tried a restart whilst costing down a hill (I could have bumped it and left the engine running at stops if it didnt restart) and all seemed well so I decided to monitor its cold starting performance this week as its been 3 degrees some nights, I decided that all 4 glowplugs were in fact working correctly so why was the light flashing?

A problem with the trailer wiring had blown the brake light fuse, it does not power any other circuits like the glowplugs, but the engine management does monitor the output from the brake light switch in case of the throttle sticking open actually a sensor failure) where touching the brakes cuts the juice.

I cant see a main dealer allowing the car out of their grasp without replacing all 4 glowplugs can you?

[sid]

I have a Renault and get this "check injection" message from time to time (I had the onboard computer display changed to English). The message occurs when one of the diesel glow plugs has failed. The car still starts, presumably by firing up the other three cyclinders and then the compression fires the faulty cyclinder.

I have only ever replaced the faulty plug. This is mainly due to my tight-fistedness; the plugs are horrendously expensive here! I buy them two at a time when in UK, at Halfords or similar. you can test each plug with a battery charger. I'm not sure if this is the recommended way, but I remove each plug in turn (very deep socket required, 10mm from memory, and one of them is particularly fiddly) clip the charger leads onto the plug and switch on. The plug will either get hor and glow (OK) or not (faulty).

EDIT Chancer, the warning light comes on when the glow plug is getting unreliable; mine would go off if I got the engine warm on a run, then stopped, say at the shops or something, and then restarted. But eventually the plug fails altogether and the light stays on continuously.

My car has done 156,000kms from new and so far I've replaced 3 plugs. It's still on the original exhaust and clutch by the way. Whilst I'm on about this stuff, I've had a problem throughout the car's life with rear RHS tyre wear. I found, after I'd had the car about 4 years, that this is a common problem due to the non-adjustable camber on the rear suspension; some owners had the rear axle replaced under warranty, but I was too late. Now I've accepted early tyre replacement as one of the costs. I've got a new (Renault) car on order so I hope to be finished with this particular problem soon. Otherwise my Renault has been great!

 

[Chancer]

The glowplugs are only used when the engine and ambient temp is cold, like today, a restart after a stop at the shops would not declench the cylinder preheating. The failure mode of a glowplug is usually definitive (element open circuit) so the glowplugs themselves wont usually give an intermittent fault but the electronic control system could.

Using a battery charger works well but to avoid removing them you can simply measure their resistance with a multi-meter, as you say they are difficult to access and can sometimes shear off, mind you removing them each year might well keep them free, I expect mine wont come out without a struggle but Bosch injectors on a German group vehicle that have done 300K miles probably will go on for ever.

Re the rear camber thats an appalling situation, very few road cars unless they are modified for racing will have adjustable camber front or rear especially with a beam axle, it sounds like they just plain cocked up the suspension geometry at the design stage and cant do anything about it other than fit a new modified axle, disgracefull.

[sid]

I have to agree about the suspension setup - this applies only to the estate version by the way. It was designed so that when under heavy load the wheels become vertical, but with no load, as our car is most of the time, the outside edge of the tyre is subject to more wear. Quite why it affects one side more than the other I've no idea.

I only found this by Googling and then finding a forum for Renault owners. Since there is no adjustment the factory solution is to replace the whole axle; you can understand why they're determined not to do this once you've gone passed the warranty period.

The handling of the car is actually very good, which is why it was designed this way in the first place, but other manufacturers manage it without the tyre wear.

It's not stopped me from ordering the new version though; I've had over 8 years good use from this one, and it was my first ever diesel too!