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Fuel cost EV/essence/diesel


chessfou2

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Having recently sent an old Mondeo (essence) to scrap, leaving us with a Focus (diesel) and a new Zoe, I have been doing a 'back of fag packet' calculation of fuel cost.

For 100km it seems that our costs are (approximately):

Focus €8-9

Zoe €2 (heures creuses) €3 (heures pleines) - EDF Bleu.

Anyone else been making calculations?
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[quote user="anotherbanana"]My little Kia Rio has a three cylinder petrol engine. Can it take these new fuels and if so which one, svp?[/quote]

The newest fuel for petrol engines is probably Superethanol E85, which is 85% ethanol, but not all vehicles can use it.

Compatibiltiy details are HERE

You can find stations supplying it  HERE

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[quote user="suein56"]There is also E15 which has 15% ethanol .. apparently most recent petrol engines can cope with this.

Whether it is good for the engine in the long term .. we'll have to wait and see.[/quote]

I believe that is only available in the USA?

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Our annual mileage is quite low, but we have quite a thirsty car, which normally uses between 8 and 9 litres/100 km, although since Covid restrictions began we have done far less mileage, on shorter trips, and it is now just over 10 litres/100 km.
We keep a running record of fuel bought, which I just checked for 2019, and find I used about 530 litres in that year.
Using today's local prices of 1.568 for SP95-E10 and 0.628 for E85, available HERE I would have saved €500 in just one year by running on E85, which would probably be enough to pay for a flexifuel conversion.

EDIT : Saving would be less than above, as fuel consumption on E85 could increase as much as 20%, which would reduce the saving to around €400 per year.

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Ken wrote the following post at 21 Aug 2021 18:04:

I sonder if people have done any real reeearch into this. Being eco is one thing, being gullible is something else!!!

Who are you addressing in your post Ken .. just who is gullible and why ?

Judging by the spelling in your post you have been at the apéros ..
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Shouldn't worry too much about the spelling, you were bright enough to read it!! As for the gullible; Many people are actual believers in the electric drive regarding ecology, regardless of cost. Because as the car they are sitting in apparently doesn't produce any pollution they are happy to shoulder any expense. The reality is that an electric car does still produce pollution though not in an obvious way and of course is averagely more expensive to buy.

The electricity has to come from somewhere as does the components and at the moment most of that energy is from, mostly, fossil fuel sources. recent research has indicated that from part to finish an eco car, especially a hybrid is less economical than a combustion engine.

I'm completely ambivalent regarding people who feel that electric is the way to go. It's the zealots who worry me and don't look at the other 'side of the coin' as long as they can wear their 'green badge!!!
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As an energy source to replace petrol and Diesel engines in cars electricity will only work to its maximum when the electricity generated is as ‘green’ as can be. That will require a continued huge investment in green electricity through solar, wind and hydro electricity including tides and currents. It’s too easy for doubters to point at fossil fuel electricity generation and say that EVs still pollute. It worth pointing out that even the inefficient hybrids have their plus points, if used thoughtfully they can significant reduce the harmful gasses from motor vehicles in towns and cities. Investment in green electricity will also be needed if hydrogen engines are going to become a realistic option as a lot of electricity will be needed to produce the clean fuel. Hydrogen cars emit water vapour, that might ‘only’ be water but it’s also a greenhouse gas.
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As my (petrol) car is just three years old I shan't be buying another car for a couple of years. If the same confusing data regarding petrol, diesel, electric etc still exists then I would have (as I do now) no idea what to buy. Governments are forcing electric upon people but fail to give the other side of the coin I;e. the pollution involved with electric and not to mention, of course, where and how is the electricity to be produced; There is barely enough now!!!!

I also suspect that the price of all this 'green' will be horrendous in years to come in electricity bills which the house consumer will also have to pay!!
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Something that raised a little warning flag with me when thinking about buying an electric vehicle was the plan to use them as a backup supply of electricity to the grid. I know the UK is heavily investing in the infrastructure to do just that  (smart meters in the home etc) but I don't know how far France has gotten yet. If we are to go completely fossil fuel free it makes sense. You can't turn on and off the wind and it's a darn sight easier to utilise all the car batteries in the country as storage rather than build new mega battery sites. However I would like to see how they plan to reimburse for any electricity they take plus I'd need to be confident that when I needed the car it would be fully charged

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edf/engie would only be able to 'steal' our Zoé's electricity if (1) it was plugged in at the time, (2) we had a Linky (unfortunately, that may be coming).

In any event, this is extremely unlikely since we charge her up during heures creuses ('off peak') when it is extremely unlikely that the grid will be overloaded.

Also, bear in mind that here (1) nuclear provides 2/3 of electricity, (2) we are linked in to the European grid. It would be a riskier proposition in England (UK imports about 7% of electricity, even more in England, and no longer benefits from the EU grid).

Anyway, this thread has completely lost the plot:

Our Zoé's 'fuel' costs €2-3 per 100km.

Our Focus diesel costs about €8 per 100km, near enough 4x.
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How much research would you like Ken? There has been a huge amount and without any shadow of doubt electric is far cleaner than fossil fuel powered versions.

Your argument on the production of the electricity is so out of date and wrong.

Using the UK national grid data as I don't have the French equivalent. Overnight the UK uses about 40% gas as solar doesnt work, nuclear and wind make up the bulk of the rest. Some days the UK burns coal to produce about 1%.

Green electricity is far better than nuclear as the incredible cost of building a nuclear power station and later de commissioning the plant dwarfs the cost of making green energy.

Regarding "hydrogen engines" generally these are hydrogen fuel cells, this couples to a catalyst that produces electricity to power the electric motor. Electric motors are far more efficient than internal combustion engines.
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Joined on 28/07/2008

PhD in Stuff

Posts 8,534

Re: Fuel cost EV/essence/diesel

How much research would you like Ken?

Well, you seem happy that all research has been done, you don't have a 'shadow of a doubt!. My argument about electric production, what argument would that be or is that just in your mind? Perhaps it was my remark about fossil fuels being used to make electric cars. Babbling on about UK grid data, why, I don't know, particularly as you don't seem to know that Gas is a fossil fuel.anyway.

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Ken I was stating the facts of the make up of electricity and a large percentage is gas. Yes gas is a fossil fuel but it is cleaner than diesel or petrol. Gas needs to be phased out also and there are moves to do so. Why quote UK, because thats the data I have. Maybe you could add something positive to the conversation for a change and find out the French equivalent?

No one has ever cared how much fossil fuel is used to make ICE cars but seem to want to put EV's under the spotlight immediately. It is an emerging tech getting better all the time.

How many renewable energy supplies could be made for the price of the oil field including cleaning it up and decommissioning. Nuclear no one will admit the cost because it is so vast. Then the contamination, where do you put all that?

Simple truth is we have to change, well maybe not you because you'll be dead soon.
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Only a fool would ignore all the data concerning EVs and ICEs regarding pollution and cost. You pontificate as if what you say is gospel whereas it is simply a rambling diatribe of nonsense. The countries producing the greatest number of cars all use fossil fuel to produce vehicles In Germany's case almost uniquely fossil fuel! As for China, a new fossil burning power station a week is estimated coming on line.

China (25.72 million)

United States (10.88 million)

Japan (9.68 million)

Germany (4.66 million)

India (4.51 million)

Mexico (3.99 million)

South Korea (3.95 million)

Brazil (2.94 million)

Only a gullible person would suck up all the propaganda regarding EVs without asking where the energy comes from to make them. I could go on about subsidies that distort even further the picture but you wouldn't be interested. Carry on with your 'fact finding'. irrelevant though it is. It seems to keep you amused.
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