Inside permission?

[jojojo]

Does anyone know if I need permission from the Maire to put in more rooms and a shower room/wc with doors in a ground floor basement/ garage area with just a supporting wall, the outer walls already have windows and a garage door, The area is 72sqm sq metes the same size as the upstairs living area, I want to keep a garage (22sqm) and block it off from the other rooms totalling 50sqm, our agent said we didn’t need permission but I’m sure I read on this forum that you did but I cant find it, hope someone can help

[Mike_87300]

I'm not a dentist but this is my understanding of the situation

You wish to change the use of an existing area?

I think the answers in the thread lower down in this forum "permis/declaration" apply to your situation and you should be applying for a permis de construire as the area affected is over 20 sq metres...see link to another forum below which suggests that over 20 sq metres a permis de construire is required, below 20 sq metres a declaration de travaux will suffice..

http://www.french-news.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=417&posts=17

The declaration will then trigger a letter (eventually) from the Impots office who will want to know within 90 days of completion of the works the new layout of the property and habitable area so the property can be reassessed for fonciere/habitation purposes.

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]Does anyone know if I need permission from the Maire to put in more rooms and a shower room in a downstairs open area with just a supporting wall, the outer walls already have windows with outside shu...[/quote]

I don't quite understand the question either, but my response would be the opposite of Mike's;

Generally (and unless your building is listed), you do not need permission to make any changes inside your house. If you are not adding/removing doors, windows or rooflights, then you will not be making any changes that require a PdeC or DdeT.

You should report the changes to the Hotel des Impots, as they may affect your local taxes - as if!!!

You could always ask in your Mairie...

 

[jojojo]

Oops sorry didn’t explain my self properly, I should have said downstairs is inside and it’s like a ground floor basement / garage with windows and garage doors so I have edited first post hope it makes more sense, hope someone can still help, need some info before I go the unfriendly abrupt Maire

[Teamedup]

Just because windows and space is there means absolutely nothing, if it was not considered habitable when you took the property you will need to check. Really it all depends on how much land you have and the rules where you live.

Try the DDE if you don't fancy asking the Mairie. However, our Mairie has often been unfriendly and abrupt and I have had some run ins with the secretary over the years. We ended up being quite friendly in the end.

[Coco]

I think Nick, that whilst you are right in saying that permission is not needed for changes "inside the house", Mike is right in this instance, as the area is a garage and therefore not deemed as habitable.  If the area, even if it is internal, was not originally habitable and it is now going to be used as living space, you do have to apply for a permis de construire, even though, technically, you're not actually building anything. 

We have a barn which is integral with the house and are intending to turn it into a large kitchen and then knock through from our existing kitchen.  We also have a grenier above our bedroom which we are turning into another bedroom and need to put a window in.

We went to see the Maire and the way it works is that she is able to give permission for the window in the roof above our bedroom and we don't need any other permission to turn it into a bedroom because a grenier above existing habitable space is deemed as part of the house anyway.  However, the barn, although an integral part of the building, is not and never has been habitable.  Therefore, we need to get the permis de construire to allow us to change the usage of that part of the building, which ultimately comes from the DDE, via our Mairie. 

Had we submitted our original plans we would have gone over the 170 sq metres which would have meant paying for architects plans to be drawn up, so our very helpful Maire suggested that we apply for the permis for the ground floor of our barn only, with windows in the roof, so that in essence it would appear that we are building a huge kitchen into the pitch of the roof with skylights (velux).  This kept the overall habitable area below the 170 sq m thresshold. She then said that once we have the permis we can go ahead and make any internal changes we like, including putting in a first floor, without needing to get further permission from anyone.

[Gyn_Paul]

Your house sounds like what we in this area call a sou(s)-sol, where the garage is half excavated into the soil, and the living area is about 4-5 ft above the mean ground level. Many of these have - on a more or less formal basis - had part or all of the basement 'co-opted' to be part of the living space.

A couple we knew have just sold one such house, with the garage coverted into a sort of family room (by the previous French owner). Our friend worried that the house he was about to sell might, in fact, not square with the details the impots had about it. Eventually he screwed up his courage and asked the Marie, who said that - in effect - it wouldn't qualify as additional living area because the ceiling throughout the basement was too low.

Might this not be the case with yours too ?

paul

[Iceni]

Coco wrote

Had we submitted our original plans we would have gone over the 170 sq metres which would have meant paying for architects plans to be drawn up, so our very helpful Maire suggested that we apply for the permis for the ground floor of our barn only, with windows in the roof, so that in essence it would appear that we are building a huge kitchen into the pitch of the roof with skylights (velux).  This kept the overall habitable area below the 170 sq m thresshold. She then said that once we have the permis we can go ahead and make any internal changes we like, including putting in a first floor, without needing to get further permission from anyone.

At first it looked like we could go down this route from info from our Marie's secretary but then a phone call was made to the DDE and we were told that if it would take us over 170 sq m we MUST get an architect. I would go to the DDE with this one. We had very very little trouble with the architect, it did not cost a lot and at least we know we are legal. Being told to take it all down in the future is not something we wanted.

Just been told that we cannot have more than 6 KW in total electricity output so ours is going to be a very energy efficient property. We already have lived with 6 KW for 18 months but did not realise that it would be for good. Never take anything for granted in France