Is low voltage lighting false economy?

[Chris Head]

"rather than go into Ohms law and discussions why low voltage lighting is no cheaper than normal lighting."

Can anyone explain this statement gleaned from another forum before I go splashing out on a lighting system for my new workshop?

Thanks.

[Nick Trollope]

For a workshop, yes.

TBT lighting is great (in cost, aesthetic and longevity terms) for a kitchen, but when you scale up to workshop size, you will find that the cost, for a given level of lilght is prohibitive. I'd recommend good ole flourescents - quite green and cheap. GU10 (mains) halogens are anything but efficient - at 50W each a workshop-full would cost a fortune to buy and run.

Also, the light from (especially LED) TBT lights can be very white - I'd suggest that you want something closer to daylight in your workshop. My workshop (which is about 150SqM has about 10 1.5M double flourescents (total investment about 400€) and I use a halogen floodlight for "spot" lighting because of my pitiful eyesight.

[Chris Head]

TBT Nick? Can I carry the circuit on and 'spot' various areas with the low wattage long life bulbs too? I guess the power consumption of all the lighting would be low enough to run from one circuit?

[Ford Anglia]

Always look at the WATTAGE, (power) of the lights for an idea of how much they cost to run. One Watt is a power use of one Joule per second, no matter whether it's at 230V or 12V, so your electricity meter will spin just as fast with either.

For new installations you then need to figure in the cost of fittings and possibly transformers.

Then look at the cost of replacing consumables, ie: bulbs, lamps, call 'em what you will.

For a large area, fluorescent lights are the way to go. You only have to look at the methods used to light large areas in industry and commerce. They haven't chosen fluorescents for  nowt, you know.

[Gluestick]

I totally agree, Chris. I would never, ever, again use these low voltage lamps! Until the price of the LED equivalents come right down as manufacturing volumes rise.

The GU10 bulbs for example, despite being "Guaranteed extra life 10,000 hours etc" blow with monotonous regularity: as do the little 20 watt plug in capsules!

Use twin neon (Fluorescent) luminaires. If you hunt around they can be bought very competitively.

On another aspect, that's some workshop you have Nick! 150 Sq Ms? What do you do there? Overhaul Jumbos?

I'm deeply jealous! I'm going  (Hoping!) to double the size of mine: but then it's still only 50 Sq Ms!

 

[Jonzjob]

I've only got a little one compaired with both of yours!![8-)] 5 meters by 7. I fitted tubes in there too, apart from a 35 watt halogin spot on my lathe and a couple of angle poise lamps.

No way would low voltage lamps give the light you need espacially in the way you work Chris. You would be falling over everything!![6][:D]

[AnOther]

FA is spot on, watts is watts, and although low voltage may possibly demonstrate higher efficiency once you factor in the the ongoing maintenance costs the balance quickly swings back to fluorescent. For me it is both the efficient and economical way with additional high intensity lighting in specific spots.

Chris, having multiple fluorescents on a single circuit can potentially over load a trip as there can be a significant surge on switch on.

Since we're comparing sizes BTW, don't mean to boast but [:$]

300 sq/m on 2 levels, 200 on the top (20 x 10 with sufficient height for a Mezzanine) and a further 100 underneath (20 x 5) with sliding doors at both ends for "drive thru". And the icing on the cake, fully lit (dual 4' fluoros) and fully wired out in 3 phase, luvverly [8-|]

Not to mention a modest 25 sq/m or so of garage under the house.

[Chris Head]

So lets say I end up with ten double flourescents and a few key areas well spotted, what are fluorescent tubes...20 watts ish? That would be 400 watt per hour electricity plus spotting. At about 10 cents KW would cost in the region of 40 cents per hour to run...say 4 euros tops for an 8 hour working day? Twenty euros a week....eighty a month, seems alot to me and needs to be cut down. Perhaps it could be less if if the lighting could be put on two circuits, working areas seperated and lighting used more efficiently? I'm planning to 'spot' using the low wattage bulbs ( 23w = 150w ones).

JJ I intend to invest in a broom thingy for the new place and have planing and sanding areas on the next level in the barn so the workshop is in real danger of looking like yours and Steves! You gotta work with mess though...we're boys...it's what we do! The frog & scorpion story springs to mind.

[AnOther]

You could spend days pondering such things Chris but as a starter for 10 there is an article HERE with a lots of useful info and comparison charts.

Regarding seperate circuits etc. It's often claimed that once a fluorescent light has been switched on it's better (cheaper) to leave it on then be continually switching it off and on as required as you would do with an incandescent. It's not that simple unfortunately but there is, as always an element of truth to it, e.g. see HERE

PS: Frog & Scorpion story ?

 

There goes that double post gremlin again....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gluestick]

Wire the lights into specific work area circuits, Chris. You don't need all the lights on all the time. Light splash creates reasonable light in the unlit areas and if you need to work in another bit, then simply turn off the first set and turn on the second!

Quite obviously, too, very important to have high-intensity focused light on specific places, such as directly above machine tools. I tend to have anglepoise type lights which I can shift around as needed; e.g. machine to bench with one sideways swing.

30 years ago when building racing engines, I found that once I had everything ready to hand on my tool trolley and parts trolley, then I could turn off the main lights in the 'shop and focus a 150 watt incandescent lamp directly on the engine stand area and work happily away for hours.

It's all a question of having sufficient light right where you need it, rather than lighting up the 'shop like Blackpool Illuminations!

 

 

[Jonzjob]

Earnie, that's not a workshop that's a bloody factory!!!!!!!![:-))]

[Chris Head]

Ok thanks for all the advice...double fluorescent tubes it is backed up by specific areas spotted with the low wattage long life bulbs (they're nearly as ugly as I am but I'll get used to 'em!) & split into different circuits for different areas. Just gotta learn how to use one of those broom thingies now and I could have a real workshop like Steve & JJ![:D]

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

On another aspect, that's some workshop you have Nick! 150 Sq Ms? What do you do there? Overhaul Jumbos?

I'm deeply jealous! I'm going  (Hoping!) to double the size of mine: but then it's still only 50 Sq Ms!

 [/quote]

It is the old village garage - orginally lit by 1 60W light bulb...

Do it it? Nothing - you know what happens; the crap expands to fill the space available....

Flourescents every time....

[AnOther]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]Earnie, that's not a workshop that's a bloody factory!!!!!!!![:-))][/quote]You're not far wrong JJ.

My house was built in the 60's by a builder for himself and he built the barn to run his business from. It's even got a small office attached.

To my knowledge over the years it has been used commercially by a stonemason and a carpentry company.

Even I don't really need that much space for myself but I've got a few ideas to perhaps earn a little pocket money from it in due course [;-)]