Well pump & tank to supply my house

[andysparks]

I have a communal well which is really close to my house ( like less than a foot away).

The house will only be used for holidays at the moment, so rather than get connected to another expensive utility, i want to make use of the well, which nobody else ever uses & is always very full even in summer.

I want to use a self priming surface pump connected to a tank, I have seen them in the brico stores. Does any one out there have experience of these units?

Any advice would be great.

[pachapapa]

As of the 1st January 2010 all wells from which water is drawn for human consumption must have been declared at the mairie of the Commune. Before rushing out to buy a pump you should check the administrative situation of the "communal" well. It should be noted that water for human consumption includes the use of such water for the irrigation and watering of vegetables and fruit which will be consumed by humans. Of course in the event of well water being used for human consumption the analysis and control are pretty draconian in addition the well will require an approved meter for consumption, etc, etc.

[andysparks]

Ah, thats good timing, so whats the situation with wells already being used before that date?

Does that mean they will need to have meters fitted etc?

[pachapapa]

I was going to give you the relevant link from my commune website but I see it is incorrect; so please find below the government website dealing with the declaration of wells. The Official Arrêté uses the term water for "domestic use" which has a slightly wider application than "human consumption", for example ablutions are included.

http://www.foragesdomestiques.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/

[Théière]

How deep is the well, most surface pumps can raise water from 5-7 metres allegedly. My pump is rated at 7 metres but cannot raise it from a well 4.5 metres from the surface to the water. deeper depths will need a submersible pump and the cost of these is quite a bit more x2+

[pachapapa]

The Circular of November 2009 gives recent practical details of the "drinking water from my own puit minefield".[:)]

http://www.foragesdomestiques.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Circulaire_controle_BO.pdf

[andysparks]

Thanks, the level in the well is never really much more than 1m below ground level & it only has to go a short horizontal distance, about 4-5m. The house is only small with a shower room & kitchen with the usual appliances.

I was hoping to buy a pump with the tank attached, am guessing maybe a 50l tank, & then on to a suitably sized hot tank. Electrics I can do, but not so sure with the wet stuff

[Théière]

Quite straight forward Andy, the water flow is controlled by a pressure switch which charges the tank. The larger the tank the less cycling of the electrics.

[pachapapa]

Pompe surpresseur units are popular in france and available at most Bricos, pressure vessel is normally 20 litres.

Lookfor smething like this: [IMG]http://www.louisexpress.com/shop/images/imagecache/240x316_112458.jpg[/IMG]

[BIG MAC]

So is my drawing of water from my own well for flushing toilets and watering the vegetable patch against the rules?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]So is my drawing of water from my own well for flushing toilets and watering the vegetable patch against the rules?[/quote]

Implicit in your question....your well has not been declared.[:)]

Yes very much against the rules firstly on the assumption the toilet flushing is associated with needs of hygiene and secondly on the premise that the watering of your vegetables is with the intention of later consuming them. All explained in paragraph below....

1. Prélèvements, puits ou forages, réalisés à des fins d’usage domestique

ayant fait l’objet d’une déclaration en mairie

Le décret du 2 juillet 2008 prévoit l’obligation, depuis le 1er janvier 2009, pour toute personne qui

utilise ou souhaite réaliser un ouvrage de prélèvement d’eau à des fins d’usage domestique (tel que

défini à l’article R. 214-5 du code de l’environnement), de déclarer cet ouvrage ou son projet

d’ouvrage auprès de la mairie (1). La mairie tient à la disposition des services publics d’eau et

d’assainissement les informations correspondant aux déclarations qui lui ont été adressées par les

propriétaires ou utilisateurs d’ouvrages. Les services chargés du contrôle peuvent effectuer le

contrôle sur la base de ces informations.

Constituent un usage domestique de l’eau au sens du code de l’environnement (art. R. 214-5) « les

prélèvements et les rejets destinés exclusivement à la satisfaction des besoins des personnes

physiques propriétaires ou locataires des installations et de ceux résidant habituellement sous leur

toit, dans les limites des quantités d’eau nécessaires à l’alimentation humaine, aux soins d’hygiène,

au lavage et aux productions végétales ou animales réservées à la consommation familiale de ces

personnes. »

Est assimilé à un usage domestique tout prélèvement inférieur ou égal à 1 000 m3 d’eau par an au

moyen d’une seule ou de plusieurs installations.

I sincerely hope you will be rectifying this apparent oversight at your earliest opportunity.[:D]

[BIG MAC]

"I sincerely hope you will be rectifying this apparent oversight at your earliest opportunity"

Yes of course .....I mean if I haven't declared it as a well That surely means it is merely a hole in the ground which I should keep draining for safety purposes. I have to put the water somewhere so I guess I may have to flush it down the loo!

As an aside I was going to route all our rainwater down pipes to a chamber then route a 110mm pipe into the side of the well below ground I guess what I need now is some heerrruuuuge water butts!

[pachapapa]

Not a hole in the ground but a well which has not been declared.

l’article R610-5 du code pénal stipulant que « la violation des interdictions ou le manquement aux obligations édictées par les décrets et arrêtés de police sont punis de l’amende prévue pour les contraventions de la 1^re classe ».

[andysparks]

Help.... I only wanted some water, gulp

[BIG MAC]

Nah I have checked it's definitely a hole and nowhere near the end of it's useage (Whatever that means) :lol

 

[Keni]

Pachapapa - what sort of cost are these al-ko's?

[andysparks]

Any advance on 20ls, or is more better, even in a small installation like mine?

Another question, I will also be looking for the correct size/ brand of hot tank.

Any recommendations out there?

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Keni "]Pachapapa - what sort of cost are these al-ko's?[/quote]

http://www.touslesprix.com/achat,pompe-surpresseur-alko.html

On leboncoin maybe half the retail price, say around € 60.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="andysparks"]Any advance on 20ls, or is more better, even in a small installation like mine? Another question, I will also be looking for the correct size/ brand of hot tank. Any recommendations out there?[/quote]

The 20 litre is a buffer to prevent fluctuations in pressure either hydraulically or with a bladder (vessie) filled with nitrogen, pump for drinking water will be more expensive.

[andysparks]

I am not to fussed about using it for drinking.

So I would need another seperate cold ballon to be fed via this pump?

[Théière]

I beg to differ, The balon (receiver) is to prevent the cycling of the pump motor so frequetly. Why else would you be able to buy them with balon's up to100 litre?

[andysparks]

http://www.bricommerce.com/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?

What about the pump at the bottom of this page? with some kind of basic filter etc?

It looks suitable to me...

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Théière"]I beg to differ, The balon (receiver) is to prevent the cycling of the pump motor so frequetly. Why else would you be able to buy them with balon's up to100 litre?[/quote]

I beg to differ as well the 100 litre would be used where there is a high probability of simultaneous demand resulting a sudden pressure drop  so the poor basket in the shower gets his "cojones" scalded. If you consider a normal shower some 30 litres of mixed hot and cold water would be required, partly sourced from the hot water tank and partly from the pump pressure chamber for a small single dwelling the 20 litre would be adequate.The whole purpose of the pressure vessel is to retain pressure when the pump is not working; the pump will only function when demand for supply is triggered; in most domestic environments this will in fact only be relatively infrequent so the pump will similarly be infrequently subjected to a duty cycle.

[Théière]

And where would the hot tank obtain its water from, static head or mains pressure? thus 30-40 litres of water is required some to the hot system and some to the cold. As you say if two en suites are used simultaneously a large 100 litre would be ideal.

[andysparks]

with my house there is only 1 thermostatic shower, I was hoping if I had say a 50l pompe surpresseur feeding on to the hot tank, maybe that would be adequate?