Double dimmer for LEDs?

[Jonzjob]

I am trying to find a double dimmer for the downlighters in our lounge.

The situation is that there are 5 downlighters in the ceiling. They are off of a double switch by the kitchen door, 1 switch feeds 3 lights, the other the remaining 2. The 2 lights also have a single switch at the hall door on the other side of the room. This means that to be able to dim the 2 I will have to have a push on/off rotary jobbie for them at one end.

My problem is that although these dimmers are available for the U.K. I have not been able to find one over here. The U.K. ones not only have a different wall fixing, but would possibly not fit in the round wall box?

Does anyone have any idea where I can get one of these please? It has to be for LEDs because there is a possibility that an ordinary one would cause the LEDs to flicker.

Edit  :  -  In one of my more frequent senior moments [8-)] I had forgotten to say that the individual LEDs lamps are just 4 watt. So a high power dimmer is not needed and possibly wouldn't work on such a small wattage? Also I am trying to keep the price below the need for a mortgage [:-))]

I also forgot to say that they are dimmable GU10s so no external transformers.

[Jonzjob]

After another look I have now found exactly what I am looking for   http://www.ledhut.fr/variateur-interrupteur-led-2-boutons-blanc.html

[Chancer]

I had I think what you wanted but only one button and not a LED specific type, the reason that I didnt use them was that they would not fit in the round French backbox and I didnt return to the UK quick enough to return them [:(]

I currently have Bricoman electronic dimmers and 50 watt GU10 halogens, I would like to change to led but want to keep the dimming facility so a couple of questions.

What are the dimmable GU10's that you use, are they the same as the ones Quillan bought? Also for Quillan, how did they turn out.

These variateurs for leds, are they different to the standard electronic dimmers? Mine are touch controlles and work by pulse width modulation by the look of things, a standard LED will be driven by them but doesnt dim, it just flickers a bit towards the lower setting and then goes out, the variateur also being a two wire jobby runs a current through the bulbs that is enough to make the LEDs glow.

[Théière]

Exactly what you want? GU10's are 240v and that dimmer said 12v (MR16)

You

are right if the load is too low then flickering can occur.  I was

speaking to a boffin a while back who has designed an AC LED lamp system

that is fully dimmable compared to trailing edge dimmers which can't go

that low without flickering.

[Jonzjob]

Quote from the Ledhut page TP

"This British made LED Dimmer is an award winning, high quality dimmer

switch, compatible with most mains and low voltage spotlights and bulb

range, including dimmable GU10 LED bulbs."

And at the bottom

"

PLEASE REMEMBER:

• 12v LED lights require an LED compatible transformer."

So they are mains 235v.

These are the spots I am fitting Chancer  http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/gu10-led-bulbs/gu10-smd-led-220-lumens-45-watts-equiv-best-internet-price.html

Ledhut also have a French site which is where I ordered all of the LED bits from, including the dimmer, so it had better fit the French wall box. The box will have to be changed because it is an early one that doesn't have the screw fixing ability, just the awful side clamp method.

[Théière]

Apologies John, I was looking for that bit of info but couldn't see it.  They look ok and have better drivers built in which is usually the failure point with very cheap LED's

I seem to remember that the Nivika (sp) range had the same pitch of screw fastening as UK gear but can't check as I am in the UK now.

[Jonzjob]

No appologies needed TP. They are indeed the same pitch for the screw mounting. As I said I will have to get into a brico next week and pick up a wall box with the screw mountings. Easy enough to change, I hope [:-))]

2 of the GU10s are now fitted and working, although not dimmed, yet [:D] They are the fire rated tilting ones. I had to enlarge the holes from 60 to just over 80mm. Easy enough. I have a couple of Carrol sanding drums and the 2" with some 80 grit abrasive in it did the job and we now have better oles than the originals [geek] The other 3 can wait until the morrow, working on the sabath an all that [6]

[Chancer]

Just been looking again at dimmable and other LEDS on Ebay, seems like the price is still falling so I think now is the time to take the plunge, anyone want 50 unused 50 watt GU10 halogen bulbs!!!!!!

Regarding dimmer switches, if I can I would like to keep my existing ones as they match the other light switches in the room, the rotary ones would look naff, how can I tell if mine are leading or trailing edge ones?

The action is momentary on, momentary off, hold switch down to dim down or raise light level up.

I have some chocolate teapot 1 watt non dimmable LED bulbs I can use to test if the halogens dont suit.

I recently sold my oscilloscope so cant do any more than just functional testing.

Thanks

[Jonzjob]

I haven't used a 'silly-scope' for about 20 years and wouldn't know what the difference is between leading and trailing edge? I don't think they existed in the outside world then? This could help though?  http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Trailing_edge_dimmer_how_does_it_work

I doubt that your likkle 1watt jobbies would be dimmabble and I assume that they are GU10s? Or else the dimmable bit would be the transformer and not dependant on the LED. 1 watt won't give you much in the way of lumens.

As far as how your dimmer will work?? I would have a look at who made them and give them a call to ask.

As far as I am concerned I may have paid more than fleabay could offer, but I think that I have also got the service that goes with wht I paid?? You pays yer money, etc..

[Chancer]

[quote user="Jonzjob"] 1 watt won't give you much in the way of lumens. Tu parles!!!!!

As far as how your dimmer will work?? I would have a look at who made them and give them a call to ask.

Probably the happygoluckydaylongmorningstarkwenzenghongkongfuuey company, I bought them in Bricoman so wont be having the conversation about leading or trailing edge with them, I will reserve that for someone more cutting edge!!!

[/quote]

[Jonzjob]

Bricoman ?? Yeh, you could be right there?? The brico's aren't known for their knowledge of what they sell are they.

There's always the other choice? Suck it and see [8-|]

[baypond]

We replaced 50 x 40 watt halogens with LED 7 watt alternatives. They are great except for one problem. If you fiddle with the dimmers and or on/off switches, they start flashing and turning themselves on and off.

If you just press the dimmers once and leave them, they are fine. Sounds like I should be changing my dimmer switches?

[Théière]

Yes Baypond that's quite a common problem with the normal incandescent dimmers.

[Chancer]

So if I am happy with the light level in my flats that have IIRC 18 off 50 watt halogens (an awfull lot of watts isnt it!) then what wattage LED's should I be looking at? I thought that 4 watt was the equivalent but you speak of a 7 watt replacing a 35 watt one.

One thing is for sure, the bargain LEDs that I picked up from Noz which turned out to be 1 watt, I cannot imagine anywhere that they might be used apart from perhaps to illuminate the position of a light switch [:(] 

[Jonzjob]

This should help a bit Chancer  http://www.ele.uri.edu/courses/ele432/spring08/LEDs.pdf

I might ask questions later?

When I replaced the 4 x 35 watt halogen lights in our bathroom with LEDs I used 4 watt jobbies. There is more light now than ever before and a better spread to boot. But it depends very much on the quality of LEDs that you get.

As I said earlier, I have now fitted the 5 replacement 4 watt LEDs in out lounge to replace the 5  x 35 watt halogens and it's like daylight compaired with the spotlight like pools of light before. I am waiting for the LED dimmer to arrive either tomorrow or Thursday to create the real finish effect.

The 4 watt spots we have now in our kitchen area are 3.5 meters up, in the ceiling, and they give far better light than the 35 watt halogens they replaced. At first I thought that I would need an extra light directly over the sink because it has always been a bit dark there, but now it is not needed. The oil lamp in the kitchen has a 3.8 watt 12v LED dangled in the chimney from the same transformer as the other 3 LEDs. In the event of a power cut the bulb is taken out, the chain lengthened and the double parafin wick lit to give us a very good light.

[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/Johns/29kitchenleds_zps8b3ffce2.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Johns/29kitchenleds_zps8b3ffce2.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

and the lounge lights

[URL=http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Jonzjob/media/Johns/Loungeleds_zps564b93df.jpg.html][IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Johns/Loungeleds_zps564b93df.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Pretty smooth ehhh [8-|]

[Théière]

[quote user="Chancer"]

So if I am happy with the light level in my flats that have IIRC 18 off 50 watt halogens (an awfull lot of watts isnt it!) then what wattage LED's should I be looking at? I thought that 4 watt was the equivalent but you speak of a 7 watt replacing a 35 watt one.

One thing is for sure, the bargain LEDs that I picked up from Noz which turned out to be 1 watt, I cannot imagine anywhere that they might be used apart from perhaps to illuminate the position of a light switch [:(] 

[/quote]

It's a little bit of a tricky answer Chancer,  My brother bought cheap Tesco 50 watt halogens and we easily out performed those with 4.5 watt LED's (using my light/lux meter to test at 1.5m and 2m from the lamp.  These are the low grade 50w halogens that will be banned shortly.  High performance 50w halogens would generally need something close to 7w LED's to actually replace them but a lot depends the surroundings as halogens produce a genuine 360 deg light then there is additional light scattered around. With an LED it's more directional so you get lower levels of light but delivered more where you want it so it appears to be the same level of out put (did that make any sense?)  Look at John's photos, the room appears well lit, he and I are certainly happy with ours but in between the ceiling  lights it's a little dark compared to a halogen lamp.  I use mainly 5w lamps now and the more modern chips are better at light rendition than the old scary blues of the past.  That isn't a lot of 50w halogens BTW, I am visiting a house which must change to LED and they have 120!!  I will be trying out various types but the early ones I supplied for the bathrooms were too bright for them at 6w and they would prefer diffused lenses to lessen the dramatic lighting and in a warmer white which lowers the lumen output. 

[mint]

Teapot, please can you read my PM and give me a bit of your expertise?

[Théière]

Will do Sweets as soon as it arrives which it hasn't yet [8-)]

[Jonzjob]

My new double dimmer switch arrived today, ordered from Ledhut.fr and it doesn't fit the round French wall boxes !!!!!

So anyone know where I can get a U.K. type square wall box from this side of the channel? It's to go in a brick wall, not dry liner.

[mint]

[quote user="Théière"]Will do Sweets as soon as it arrives which it hasn't yet [8-)]

[/quote]

Teapot, you are "Simply the Best" with apologies to Tina Turner and NormanH if he's reading as he would like to think I don't know any pop music at all!

[Théière]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]My new double dimmer switch arrived today, ordered from Ledhut.fr and it doesn't fit the round French wall boxes !!!!!

So anyone know where I can get a U.K. type square wall box from this side of the channel? It's to go in a brick wall, not dry liner.

[/quote]

Oh, that's annoying, even the niveka range?  If you can't find one PM the details and i'll put one in the post.

[Chancer]

I will happily send you one or a few but unless I can squash them flat to under 2cm it will cost la peau de la fesse.

Maybe I could try paying and printing off the mini-max label on line then searching for a post box with a big enough throat, the harridan at my local La Poste was very very unhappy about accepting my last parcel (some coachbolts for someone on another forum) even though it was within dimensions and weight, luckily the director was there who told her to shut the whatever up and do her job but she looked really angry and I wont get a good reception next time.

In any case they are going spare and you can have them for the postage cost, I have done my charitable one for this month [:D]

[Chancer]

P.S. It gives me no pleasure in being proved right once again [:(]

I am fast becoming a harbinger of doom and sadly its usually correct, back in the UK the rare occasions that my pessimism was justified was perhaps something to celebrate.

[Théière]

Nothing wrong with being correct Chancer and quite rare on forums, well some of them at least.  I know Le Grand sell electrical stuff in the UK which is where the screw hole sizing begins to match, given a bit more time and the need for dimmers to cut electrical power usage and the fact you can't get very much of anything in the silly little french boxes, surely time will change things.

[Chancer]

I think the hole pitches have matched since France moved away from les griffes

In the 90's I bought a sexy touch operated dimmer switch from CPC that could also be operated by any IR remote control, I used it for my bedroom light, after switching off the TV I could then avoid getting up to turn off the light by using the remote.

Anyway the hole pitch was too small for the UK backboxes and it came with these strange things that I now know to be griffes.

Plus ça change........................