Thanks for all those replies, quite a variety!! But I'm still none the wiser as I do all the things that have been suggested (having been a pretty good cook for more years than I care to remember); and yes I do seal the beef first! I can only assume that when I buy it on promo, its low quality..thats the only thing that makes sense, I've cooked it for hours and the day before and marinated it...only thing I havent done is give it to the dog but I reckon she'd spit it out too!!!! Would love to know what cuts of beef work then that dont cost loads of money? C