Frederick Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]Has anyone mentioned what should happen to the station's editor and lawyers at all? After all, both these parties were happy for the recorded "joke" to be broadcast. [/quote]We have had newspapers owned by an Australian who look a long time before he admitted his staff were wrong to hack peoples phones to get their scoops We live in hope that the Australian owned radio station will not keep us waiting so long before they admit lies and impersonation are wrong to get theirs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I believe the UK police are looking to see, in conjunction with the prosecution service, if there is a case for them and the management of the station to answer. I suspect that before anything can progress in that department the coroner's verdict will have to be published first. I should imagine that the coroners court and the report is something that in many ways the family may not be looking forward to, all that hurt and pain reliving the whole thing once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Clair"][quote user="just john "]What kind of culture patronises these moronic hoax calls? worse yet when these dysfunctional people portray themselves as victims with cringeworthy scripted rehearsed 'interviews'...[/quote]That's roughly how I feel about it...[/quote]I really can't imagine what type of culture could possibly......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAUA9WQwgWo No Ikea staff were hurt in the making of the hoax.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwAovQPSRhQ No members of No 10 were hurt in the making of this prank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Théière"]I really can't imagine what type of culture could possibly......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAUA9WQwgWo No Ikea staff were hurt in the making of the hoax.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwAovQPSRhQ No members of No 10 were hurt in the making of this prank.[/quote]IMO, hoax calls to a hospital rank as low as 999 hoax calls or hoax bomb calls to an airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ceour de Lion II Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I still find it hard to believe that this was the sole reason for the woman's suicide. There has to have been other issues in her life and this tipped her over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Judging by our own culture perhaps but with my albeit limited knowledge of the lady's culture I understand a bit just how important honour would have been to her, sadly I suspect that she may have done what was to her the honourable thing.I dont see the Australian girl behaving honourably (I dont mean taking her life), I read that she is on suicide watch, many if not most attempts at suicide are attention seeking, I dont think that was at all the case for the victim, and I refuse to accept that the DJ's are victims in this sad story.In terms of motives for suicide its hard to think of two people at further extremes of the spectrum.A bit of a thread swerve but a French teacher has been suspended for making her teenage class write a suicide letter for homework saying how disgusted they were with their life, how they wanted to end it etc [:(] no surprise that L'education Nationale were quick to denounce her, I think it was a her, maybe him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]I still find it hard to believe that this was the sole reason for the woman's suicide. There has to have been other issues in her life and this tipped her over.[/quote]Really? I don't. It comes across as an extreme over-reaction to what someone more confident might see as a brief embarrassing moment, but I can easily imagine how a quiet, shy and conscientious person could have felt intense shame at being the cause of her employers' embarrassment and possible conflict with VIP patients, as well as the cause of her colleague's breach of confidentiality. Add most of the world laughing at how anyone could be tricked by such fake accents... By all accounts, she was a diligent nurse, proud of working in one of the most exclusive hospitals in the world, and all of a sudden, her "stupidity" has put her professional life in jeopardy, with her employers as well as with her colleagues.Her children, her husband, her friends and neighbours, all will find out... It is quite possible she felt overwhelmed by the shame of it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Her sister in law described her in glowing terms and also said she was the last person you would think would commit suicide. As she knew her a lot better than any of us it may well be there were deep seated issues that because they had been hidden had festered and this incident was enough to push her over the edge. Detailed studies of suicides suggest that most of these tragic events occur after the person has been under pressure for some time and are not the result of a single incident. Many suicide victims have made unsuccessful attempts previously.What has shocked me is that to date no-one from the hospital management has taken the trouble to meet her husband and children or to provide them with counselling. This I think speaks volumes about the lack of support she received after the hoax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Chancer"] Judging by our own culture perhaps but with my albeit limited knowledge of the lady's culture I understand a bit just how important honour would have been to her, sadly I suspect that she may have done what was to her the honourable thing.[/quote]Honour, being honourable, is sadly something that you only get to see as words in dictionaries these as days. I have always believed that when somebody uses the phrase "they are without honour" to mean that they are basically the scum of the earth and to be avoided at all costs. Now we have the phrase amongst the younger generation "respect" for who most don't know what it means nor do they understand it is something one earns.Unfortunately although honour is no longer considered that important in the our part of the world it is in many other cultures and to some is the very heart of their culture yet these days we seem to treat people with this belief with contempt. Perhaps that is why some people say that there is more than just this that caused her to take her life especially being a devoted catholic, they cannot see that to some loosing their honour is the loss of everything including the right to live. We have now for so long imprinted out culture and beliefs, often incorrectly, on other cultures and judge them by our own standards without any thought of the possibility that we could be wrong. I personally, even today, feel that the worse insult I can ever pay somebody is to tell them that in my eyes they have no honour and are totally dishonourable.I therefore agree in your statement that the girl or more accurately woman DJ, and the man, and the person who allowed this to go on air have not behaved honourable which in my belief is the absolute worse thing you can say about them.I also believe that all the press activity on this issue should now come to an end till after the coroner's verdict to save extenuating the suffering of the victim's family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Quillan"]I also believe that all the press activity on this issue should now come to an end till after the coroner's verdict to save extenuating the suffering of the victim's family.[/quote]Hear hear. And perhaps the same restraint should be exercised in the social media as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"]What has shocked me is that to date no-one from the hospital management has taken the trouble to meet her husband and children or to provide them with counselling. This I think speaks volumes about the lack of support she received after the hoax.[/quote]Well, I don't know if a meeting would be top of my list if I were in a similar situation as the bereaved family.As far as I remember reading, there has been telephone contact with offers of help, including counselling, but surely it's up to the family to decide if they want to accept, not up to Keith Vaz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Clair"][quote user="Rabbie"]What has shocked me is that to date no-one from the hospital management has taken the trouble to meet her husband and children or to provide them with counselling. This I think speaks volumes about the lack of support she received after the hoax.[/quote]Well, I don't know if a meeting would be top of my list if I were in a similar situation as the bereaved family.As far as I remember reading, there has been telephone contact with offers of help, including counselling, but surely it's up to the family to decide if they want to accept, not up to Keith Vaz...[/quote]Thats not the impression I am getting from our local TV news (the same area as the family live in). But of course it is up to the family to decide whether they accept. No-one would argue with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think any of us know enough about this woman to speculate about the cause of her suicide.I heard the CEO of the hospital saying that he spoke very early on in all of this offering any help and support that was needed and he had followed that up with a letter.Keith Vaz will jump on any passing bandwagon.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Hoddy"]Keith Vaz will jump on any passing bandwagon. Hoddy[/quote]Something he has a reputation for and has done so many times in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"]Thats not the impression I am getting from our local TV news (the same area as the family live in). But of course it is up to the family to decide whether they accept. No-one would argue with that[/quote]Yesterday's paper: ... the hospital's chief executive John Lofthouse responded [...] "We understand that the family are distraught and need time to reflect on the assistance they require. King Edward VII's Hospital will remain here for them whenever, wherever and however they need us." I don't know what to make of Keith Vaz in this... Is he making hay? [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 He's well known for it around these parts. Over time one notices that he waits to see which way the wind is blowing before he starts to make a fuss He plays to different audiences at different times. At the moment it's Asian Christians; who knows who it will be next week ?Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Reporters do this thing all the time. Pretend to be someone they are not in order to expose security flaws and so on. There must be several documentaries a year along these lines, some winning awards.But of course, they don't normally end in someone's death. So the reporter is often congratulated on doing the a service by revealing a weakness.There is no way the DJs could have foreseen this outcome. They are nonetheless being judged on the consequences. Had the unfortunate woman not died, it would have gone down as a bit of a laugh (which appeared to be how Prince Charles saw it initially). The action of the DJs would have been the same, so why are they to be condemned?As for Keith Vaz jumping on the bandwagon, he's a politician. It's what they do. But what excuse do contributors to the forum have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Personally I think it says a lot about what is considered amusing these days, I don't think I'd have ever thought phoning a hospital in order to information about a patient by pretending to be someone else funny, but then neither did I think Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross were very comical, letting a girls grandfather know just what Russel Brand had been doing with her.....I guess my sense of humour is waning, or I am just out of step, or touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Quillan"] I also believe that all the press activity on this issue should now come to an end till after the coroner's verdict to save extenuating the suffering of the victim's family.[/quote]Hear hear. And perhaps the same restraint should be exercised in the social media as well[/quote]Well, there is interest here - merely an observation.The press needs to fill the pages and I am sure that if an editor has a good news and a bad news story of equal calibre then they will choose the bad news story.Going back to the press there have been numerous articles about daughters being killed as honour killings. Can you understand killing a daughter because she looked at a boy. Can you understand committing suicide because you are the subject of fun around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 "Going back to the press there have been numerous articles about daughters being killed as honour killings. Can you understand killing a daughter because she looked at a boy. Can you understand committing suicide because you are the subject of fun around the world."Having been involved most of my working life with minority communities I know more than I want to about "izzat" and there are some asian christians in my extended family which is why I've said repeatedly that we can't judge this poor woman's state of mind.Like RH I wouldn't have found the original 'joke' funny - it's all too easy to make fun of someone who isn't speaking in their first language and that really is the most they could have achieved. They played it repeatedly glorying in how funny it was with no thought for the embarrassment of the nurses concerned.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote user="Alan Zoff"]Reporters do this thing all the time. Pretend to be someone they are not in order to expose security flaws and so on. There must be several documentaries a year along these lines, some winning awards.But of course, they don't normally end in someone's death. So the reporter is often congratulated on doing the a service by revealing a weakness.There is no way the DJs could have foreseen this outcome. They are nonetheless being judged on the consequences. Had the unfortunate woman not died, it would have gone down as a bit of a laugh (which appeared to be how Prince Charles saw it initially). The action of the DJs would have been the same, so why are they to be condemned?As for Keith Vaz jumping on the bandwagon, he's a politician. It's what they do. But what excuse do contributors to the forum have?[/quote]But they were not reporters, they were a couple of pretty lightweights hoping to make a name for themselves out of someone else's discomforture. Who ever had answered the phone it was certain that they would not be a person in the public eye in any way, but a nurse wanting to do their job of looking after sick patients, no matter who those patients were. Because of that they were made a target, by a pair of people who seemed to be totally thoughtless: not content to carry out the prank they went on and on about it, replaying it etc- oh how clever they were I hope this tragedy will at the very least make others think, and think again before making similar calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 So if they had been investigative reporters rather than a couple of silly pranksters and she had died, that would have been OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Of course it wouldn't, however investigative reporting is usually into some suspected misdead or injustice and I suppose has some genuine justification. Watergate, the MPs expenses scandal are the result of genuine investigative reporting.This jape, and that's what it was, was not done in any noble cause but to lampoon an historic institution for the sake of it at the expense of a sick, probably frightened girl, and the nurses trying to care for her. Time to grow up for those DJs to grow up..........I guess they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The 2 Australian DJ's were playing a prank - just like the thousands before them have played in the media. We have all at one time or another laughed at some of these pranks - indeed some laughed at the hospital one before the suicide of the nurse. No one has ever died before because of a radio prank call. There is absolutely no way the DJ's could have foreseen the tragic outcome and in no way did they ever expect or want that outcome. There was no intention to harm, no malice - just like when I go out in my car or fly a plane - I have no intention of harming anyone but sh*t happens - sometimes.The DJ's are not to blame for the death of Jacintha Saldhana - she committed suicide - an entirely selfish act in itself. No one, except her, knows why she did it.Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 That's kind of the point CL, a woman is dead because of two adults idea of a childish prank.Of course they didn't foresee what would happen, they thought no further than making the call because they are just obviously not well blessed with that kind of sense.It is nothing like when you go out in your car or get on a plane, unless you drive irresponsibly or the pilot flies in a risk taking way.What did they think would happen if they got through?No, they didn't think and a family have lost a daughter, wife and mother.Jolly good laugh wasn't it!To say she was selfish in committing suicide seems to me to show a complete lack of understanding of another persons culture or indeed empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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