Women in French society

[NormanH]

A  thought provoking article from across the Atlantic

What do you think ladies?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/15/world/europe/15iht-letter15.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=world

[Judith]

I am absolutely sure that women are somewhat behind those of the UK in their entrance and acceptance (which is more the problem) into working society .... even now they are still expected to do all the shopping on the way home from work (if they do) and then cook.  What do I judge this on - years of the same experience in the UK and watching what happens around me here.

The women's debate is alive and kicking in France, but still stands much less of a chance of being successful due to male chauvinism ..... the reason why so many women go into self employment (in the UK and in France) is that they can get neither the rights nor the hours they wish to work, nor the respect and all the other things which go with professionalism in the workplace,  without becoming self employed ....

[idun]

Strangely when I got to France I was shocked at how women went back to work within a few weeks of having their babies. And then it was still rare in the NE of England for anyone to go back to work for a year or two or five after they had had their children. I know it has all changed now, but back then it was like that. So I would say that women in France are used to going out to work and they work around their employers work times. That they did 'everything' else too, well, they did then and I haven't been out of France that long that I would see that they still were. My other little surprise was that it hadn't been 'that long*' since they had had to have their husband's written permission to work! '*That long' in the time scale that it would have  meant that my mother would have had to ask my father's permission to work.

 

Can women be feminine and feminist? If I am against male dominance, well I'm not sure if that means I am a feminist. My belief is that men and women should be valued as human beings and their talents treat with respect and rewarded properly in the work place. I don't want feminised men or women acting like blokes either. We are different, and for me there is nothing what so ever wrong with that.

Is that what goes wrong in french society, that men cannot see past the feminine, or is it that women believe that they are acting in an unfeminine way if they want to be treat as equals. Which poses the question is there something wrong with the men or the women. Do women believe that men cannot cope with the idea that they can be feminine and equal? Something is certainly wrong at the heart of french society in this regard. And maybe the women are more to blame. Take the  affreux Maire from my village. His affreuse femme (great pairing  there) told their son, that he was the plus beau, plus intelligent fils au monde and that his sisters were nothing in comparison and just les petites pisseuses. So if that is how a boy is brought up, how will he look upon girls and women? That boy will now be a man!

Thought provoking article yes it is. What a complicated subject.

[Judith]

[quote user="idun"] 

Can women be feminine and feminist? If I am against male dominance, well I'm not sure if that means I am a feminist. My belief is that men and women should be valued as human beings and their talents treat with respect and rewarded properly in the work place. I don't want feminised men or women acting like blokes either. We are different, and for me there is nothing what so ever wrong with that.

Is that what goes wrong in french society, that men cannot see past the feminine, or is it that women believe that they are acting in an unfeminine way if they want to be treat as equals. Which poses the question is there something wrong with the men or the women. Do women believe that men cannot cope with the idea that they can be feminine and equal? Something is certainly wrong at the heart of french society in this regard. And maybe the women are more to blame. Thought provoking article yes it is. What a complicated subject.

[/quote]

Idun,

Something we agree on at least!

I would only disagree by saying that whilst I think that the problem is worse in French society than elsewhere, the problem of femininity / masculinity can be seen the world over.  I do not regard myself as a feminist, but don't get me started on rights of women at work, or you will find I can get very hot under the collar .... so if that is feminist, I am.

I do believe that men and women should be treated as equal, but both bring different skills and talents to life and the workplace, which should be encouraged, and gender should  not determine what you [can] do in life.  As such, I think that is now mainly accepted, but what isn't  - yet  - is the sharing of responsibilities, be they regarded as male (in the workplace) or feminine (in the home)  - which are lagging behind - now when those responsibilities are equally shared without thought that it was never thus, we will be getting somewhere.