online shopping problems

[ponyo]

I made a purchase from a shop, inFrance, on the internet. I already paid for it, the shop received the payment. But I've never received what I ordered. The shop says they sent it by GLS, and GLS says they did deliver it. They showed me a proof of delivery, with "my" signature but the signature is not mine. It is signed with my name but I didn't sign it. Someone else, probably someone from GLS, signed it. I'm guessing that GLS lost my package but doesn't want to admit it.

I contacted the shop by email several times but they are not helpful, not even friendly. They are actually very impolite and rude. They have even told me that they find my emails to them are annoying. Basically, they don't want to do anything about it. No refund, no apology, nothing. I know some people say that "customer service" doesn't exist in France but this is the first time to experience such an impolite shop. Is there anything I can do now to get refund?

[woolybanana]

I am by no means an expert but can't you block the sale by way of your credit card?

How similar is the forged signatue to yours?

[ponyo]

Thank for your reply.

No, I can not block the payment as I paid by debit card.

The signature is COMPLETELY not mine. Actually, GLS knows that I didn't sign it because they told me that they left the package in my mail box.

[Kong]

Twice it has happened to me - items shipped from the UK by well known international carriers with the facility to track the shipment as it trundles round Europe. The last I saw on each occasion on line was signed for, delivered and a scrawl no way my signature. The next day a plain white van arrived with the goods and a request to sign a bit of paper. I live out in the sticks and I think the last leg of the delivery is subed out to a local who is prepared to drive all over the countryside looking for you. The carrier declares the goods are delivered and the original sender believes this so it's in the lap of Mr white van man.... 

[Chancer]

On the positive side nearly all of my deliveries no matter what the carrier arrive chez moi by the same white van man and luckily for me as its a real rarity around here, he is very conscientous, approchable and friendly.

He was out delivering in the snow  long before the school and municipal bus drivers returned and even before some locals would walk 500 meters to their place of work. 

[dave21478]

This happened to me too. I ordered a hedge trimmer from UK, which never arrived. Tracing the online trail showed it had been "signed" for by me, but it was just a squiggle.

The courier swears they left it on the doorstep and it must have been stolen afterwards.

Sadly, thats as far as I got with it. The sender refused to refund or replace as from his point of view it had been signed for as delivered. The courier refused to accept any kind of responsibility since they had "delivered" it.

Another few hundred quid down the flusher due to French incompetence and indifference.[:@]

[HoneySuckleDreams]

As you haven't signed for it and someone else did and you haven't received the item, then I would say that it is either fraud or theft, probably both.

Can't you make a formal complaint with the police? If people don't start making a stand against these thieves then they will carry on doing it.

Easiest thing in the world isn't it to steal stuff from people living in rural locations especially when a) they're not at home b) are foreigners. Quick squiggle on the form and the box stays in the back of the van and no matter how much you complain you get a shrug and they will tell you it's your fault for "leaving it outside waiting to be stolen"

 

[NormanH]

Even though my bank card is a debit one I believe that there is an 'assistance juridique' as part of the service.

You might consider contacting your card provider.

[ponyo]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Actually, the cost I paid (and lost) is only 25€, so I can forget about it. But what I'm really upset about is that the shop never apologies to me.

The shop says on their website, they use GLS or Colissimo but I could not choose the delivery method. The shop decided to send my package by GLS. So I consider the shop has responsibility for losing my package.

I do think that GLS just lost my package, or because the package was so small that they thought it was not important to deliver it. Since GLS insists that they "delivered" my package even with fake signature, I don't think the shop will refund me. They are already very rude to me, so I'm not hoping to get refund anymore.

As for the 'assistance juridique', I could ask my bank, but since GLS says I "signed", I don't think that the bank can do anything about it.

[Chancer]

To date I have been lucky and had a good run of it, a few things have been "lost" (the default tracking info when they dont give a rats!) and the international Ebay seller has sent another only for the first to finally arrive, I think many sellers take a view and replace stuff that gose missing but it happens so much more in France that they can take a different line, I wonder if they thinks its the French system or crooked purchasers?

As for the French sellers well I think its clear that they did send the goods and well, sadly you cannot expect them to be bothered, sympathetic or even polite.

There is another distribution chain that I will use more as soon as I have my first problem, that is collection from a local relais point, they check and copy your ID and everything so I would say there is little chance of the parcel going walkies and you being blamed, its usually a cheaper service, and so it should be but some sellers actually charge more for it which I think speaks volumes about peoples perception of transporteur deliveries, that they are willing to pay a premium for whats on the face of it a lesser but surely more reliable service.

Another thing that plays its part in the equation is in the UK a courier tempted to whip the parcel and sign the squiggle themselves runs a risk of being sacked, or at least downgraded, not getting a pay rise etc if the disputes raised on their parcels are apparently high but nothing can be proved, they are also not likley to be in the job for ever and would not want a bad or indifferent reference, none of these things apply in France and hence pinching the interesting parcels like strimmers is seen as perks for those who condemn themselves to a lifetime of the same job.

[Frederick]

[quote user="dave21478"]This happened to me too. I ordered a hedge trimmer from UK, which never arrived. Tracing the online trail showed it had been "signed" for by me, but it was just a squiggle.

The courier swears they left it on the doorstep and it must have been stolen afterwards.

Sadly, thats as far as I got with it. The sender refused to refund or replace as from his point of view it had been signed for as delivered. The courier refused to accept any kind of responsibility since they had "delivered" it.

Another few hundred quid down the flusher due to French incompetence and indifference.[:@][/quote]

Surely the point is if you have not signed for it .......it was not delivered  !    Left on premises with a squiggle put on by a delivery driver is forging your signature  and not delivering it to you .    I think I might be talking to the boys in blue  if it had been me .Who knows but they may  have had similar reports and  preparing to pay the delivery driver and his company a visit  and your item would have been on the list to look for .

 I have been lucky so far with deliveries in France as mainly its been by the Post and I have never lost anything ... 

[dave21478]

The police? Ha, thats a joke. The nearest cop shop is a 25 minute drive away, they are "open" perhaps two afternoons a week although they are usually not available and frankly they dont like being disturbed. Investigating this would take effort and yield no real results for them.

Besides, where is the proof? The parcel was "signed" for by me. Its not my signature, but that makes as little as no difference to the courier company. As soon as the parcel is out the van and there is a mark on their paper, their responsibility is over. Yes, in theory it should be handed to me, but this is France where what SHOULD happen and what DOES happen are very different things. If I am not in when they try to deliver.... well that means them having to make a second delivery attempt which is more work for them.... Not going to happen - its much easier for them to just cheat and if my parcel goes walkies, whether it was chogged by someone passing by or the van driver, well thats my fault for not being at home, not theirs.

Don't think that I found out what happened and just said "screw it" and wrote it off, I spent a good fortnight of pissing about on the phone and visits to the courier company and it was all a complete waste of effort. Nobody gives a fuck.

[sid]

Chancer mentioned the "relais" delivery point.  I've used this a few times; whilst it's 13kms away from here, the shop (tabac/newsagent) is open from early in the morning until 7pm in the evening, making it convenient if you happen to be often out during the day. You have to produce ID there, which is an added security measure.  [;-)]

I've also found increased reluctance for Ebay(UK) sellers to post to France.  [:@]

 

[ponyo]

http://www.leparisien.fr/essonne-91/essonne-la-factrice-a-detourne-des-centaines-de-colis-02-12-2011-1748684.php

[Chancer]

Thats somerhing that stinks about the La Poste system, they attest themselves that something has been delivered without the need of a signature, Paypal accepts this as gospel evidence of delivery, to be fair in the vast majority of cases with honest facteurs/factrices it will be true.

If anyone was doubting what Dave21478 was saying look at this case, theft on a grand scale over a 5 year period, hundreds of parcels stolen, I would say that close to 100% were reported to the local La Poste and close to that amount to the gendarmerie and what came of it??? Nothing whatsoever, it took a formal complaint from a neighbour saying that she was unloading parcels into her garage every day before the Gendarmes realised that they could not ignore it any more.

I reported a theft recently at the Gendarmerie, hardly the crime of the century and probably no chance of seeing the items again (tools and accessories pinched from my bike at the swimming pool) what shocked me was just how seriously the gendarmerie took the recording of the offence, took most of the afternoon and ran to several typed pages, you would think I was giving a deposition in front of a grand jury for a murder case, then it dawned on me that that is what the two happily deskbound gendarmes did and all they wanted to do and they made it fill their day, wanting to actually solve a crime appealed to them about as much as someone at the prefecture wanting to matriculate imported vehicles.

[Clair]

I had a similar problem as the OP, and with the same delivery firm (GLS).

I had ordered a Kindle from Amazon with 24h delivery and I tracked it on GLS's website, right until the moment when the screen showed that the delivery had been made!

As I hadn't left the house that day, I knew this to be a lie.

I contacted Amazon to advise them the item had not been delivered, contrary to the GLS's notification.

I also contacted GLS to advise them that the package had not be delivered and that I hadn't signed for it, that whoever had signed in my name had committed fraud and theft.

GLS replied that the item had not required a signature and had been left with a neighbour on Saturday, as "the recipient was not present to receive" it.

On Monday, GLS's online delivery notification had been amended to show that the delivery had not taken place because the address was "incorrect or incomplete" (they had the tel number, but didn't use it to find the "correct" del address...)

By a strange coincidence, the parcel miraculously appeared in my letter box 2 days later... [Www]

I returned it to Amazon, as I had already received a replacement (and a refund for the missed 24h delivery).

I suspect that the GLS driver couldn't be bothered to drive all the way to the sticks where I live and because I had requested an overnight delivery, they wanted to show the non-delivery was not caused by them, hence the "left with a neighbour" note.

[Chancer]

Did you have to ring a premium rate number to contact GLS and then be kept waiting 10 minutes plus?

Thats something that most people complain about.

My GLS delivery took several days for the last leg, it was a car battery and I was housebound whilst waiting for it, I understood the problem when the driver explained, all the French mapping sites and GPS's will take you down a country lane instead of to me and he was a temporary driver, the good thing was that tracking data was truthfull albeit 12 hours late to update, it showed it going out for delivery and going back to the depot at night.

[Clair]

[quote user="Chancer"]Did you have to ring a premium rate number to contact GLS and then be kept waiting 10 minutes plus?[/quote]

No, I didn't call them. I filled in a form on their website.

I first tracked the parcle using their ref # (supplied by Amazon), then followed a link on the GLS page where the delivery details appeared.

I stated I had not received the delivery and mentioned fraud and theft.

They replied by email to say no signature had been required and the parcel had been left with a neighbour.

I replied to their email to say no delivery attempt had been made, either with me or with a neighbour.

They replied it was all done and dusted as far as they were concerned.

Thankfully, Amazon replaced the missing Kindle and refunded the delivery charge almost immediately. I received a replacement (via La Poste, no sig required!) 3 days after I first contacted them.