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Snakes


allanb

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On another thread, 'chris pp' wrote "There are no adders in that part of France..." (referring to Carcassonne).

Chris, can you tell me whether there are adders in this part of France?  (Lot-et-Garonne, on the fringe of the Bordeaux wine region).

I've seen snakes in my garden, but I haven't been able to identify them.  I wish adders no harm, but I'm not sure they feel the same way about me.

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Lot-et-Garonne, on the fringe of the Bordeaux wine region? No, there are no adders in that region, but there are Asp vipers, which are venomous and six other types of snake which are not.

Can you give some description of the snakes that you've seen?

Chris

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[quote user="chris pp"]Lot-et-Garonne, on the fringe of the Bordeaux wine region? No, there are no adders in that region, but there are Asp vipers, which are venomous and six other types of snake which are not.

Can you give some description of the snakes that you've seen?[/quote]

With difficulty.  Several times I've been aware of a snake disappearing under a bush, but I've only seen the end of it (literally) and I couldn't give a description.

Once I saw what must have been the underside of a snake overhead in a barn roof, through a gap in the tiles: it was plain yellow, but I have no idea how big it was.

The only time I've seen a complete snake, it was (I guess) between 2 and 3 feet long, with a fairly dense regular pattern of dark green and white or pale yellow.  There was a definite contrast between the two colours, but it wasn't such a big pattern as I've seen in illustrations of vipers.  It didn't hang around long enough for me to see the shape of its eyes.

And, forgive my ignorance, but isn't a viper the same as an adder?

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Yours could have been a female adder, Puzzled, but could also have been a smooth snake, a grass snake or even a viperine snake, the latter depending on where you are in Brittany.

allan, I think you will find that you have given two good enough descriptions of a western whip snake, and an adder is not an asp viper.

See. http://planetepassion.com/SPECIES%20FACT%20SHEETS/snakes_of_france.htm

 

Chris

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Chris: thank you.  The link gave me a photograph which looked exactly like my recollection of the snake, so I've decided to relax and accept that it's a western whip snake, as you suggest.

If so, I gather that it's not venomous, but may bite if threatened.

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It won't actually hurt you, but they can sometimes get a bit stroppy if they think they are under threat, lots of hissing and occasionally they will strike at you, no worse than being given a bit of a whack with a stick from a large one, but understandably it can frighten people.

I like them a lot.

Chris

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Our snake seems to have taken up residence; we have seen him several times and now have a few photographs.  I don't think there's any doubt about his identity.

Chris, if you can tolerate two more questions:

(1)  I don't know whether these snakes are attracted by water, but his chosen patch of shrubbery is very close to a swimming pool.  Is he likely to join us in the pool?

(2)  We've recently noticed several holes in the ground - not among the bushes, but in an adjacent area of grass and weeds which we jokingly call the lawn.  Do these snakes burrow?  The holes would be about the right size.

I'm beginning to realize how ignorant I am on this subject.   "He" might be she; that's another question.

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This may be of very limited help but I do have considerable knowledge of adders having lived and worked in the New Forest for a long while. 

First of all the 'old forest boys' still differentiate between adders and vipers believing them to be different species whereas in reality what they consider vipers are the first / second year young of adders and are usually quite dark ior vivid n colour.  Whether or not this has anything to do with asp vipers in France I have no idea.

Secondly there is no inherent malice in any small snake.  They always [with one exception] prefer to flee than flight.  It is when they are taken unawares that they may attack in, what seems to them, self defence.  Snakes rely upon vibrations to alert them to what is going on around them and normal walking gives them sufficient warning to get away.  The danger period in the UK is late July to end on August.  Adders, as opposed to any other UK snake have live young and the time of year mentioned the females are heavily pregnant and may lay in sunny areas of paths etc and, being hevay and sluggish, are reluctant to move.  It is this time of year that most dogs are bitten - and humans for all I know.  Adder bites are very seldom fatal, one has to be pretty poorly to be badly affected.  I have never been bitten myself [my dogs have] but i do know a few people who have been and their experience is that it is very painful - about twice as painful a a hornet sting.

This  may be of little help but there genuinely is no reason to panicc because of the possible presence of adders.

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[quote user="chris pp"]Do we get to see the photos, or what snake is it?  Be useful to know...[/quote]I meant that it's the one you named (the western whip snake, or couleuvre verte et jaune).

I will be happy to attach a photo if someone can tell me how to do it.  I have the photo, reduced to 640 x 480, but I don't know how to get it into this message.  Copying and pasting the .jpg file doesn't seem to work.

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Sorry...

To answer your questions, they are not a snake that is keen on water, so it won't go in the pool through choice. The holes that you have seen are most likely made by voles, either common voles or field voles, and western whip snakes will use these tunnels to hang out in, nice handy place to slip away in. I often wonder if any of them get stuck down there.

They are nice snakes even if they can get a bit stroppy sometimes and will not cause you any harm, get to know them a bit.

Cheers, Chris

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Chris: thanks for the information, again.

Sorry I can't post a photo.  I've tried the Photobucket method but got nowhere.  The problem is that I'm a newbie in digital photography, and I don't understand iPhoto.  The only way I know to find a photograph is to use iPhoto, but as soon as I open the application, Photobucket says "that's not a JPEG file!" and goes no further.

I'll keep trying.  One day the light may dawn.

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  • 1 month later...

I thought Id come on the forum to see if anyone could help me with my snake problem....seems Im not the only one!

We have just bought a rennovation project near to Charolles in southern Burgundy and have spent the last two weeks out there starting to do some work on it. First job was to clear the acre of land from chest high bramble, nettle and grass. The first week and a bit was ignorant bliss strimming and scooping up armfulls of undergrowth (...felt a bit like david bellamy) until we found an adders nest in the dry stone wall right next to the house. Now Im normally quite a rational person but if I have one phobia in life its snakes (Ive even tried hypnotherapy to deal with it). By the end of the 2 weeks my nerves were so raw that I was seriously considering putting it back on the market!

Weve seen 4, basking in the sun. 2 large (one grey, one brown) and 2 small (both grey and black). They are definatly adder berus and I know they are protected, but I must find a way to get them at least further away from the land than they are or my french dream is ebbing away. One of my main concerns is a very bumbling and inquisitive old english sheepdog who if finds one, will try and play with it!

Everyone keeps telling me that If I keep the land strimmed and take away their environment and food source (ther are losts of small lizards on the walls and crickets) they will go and find somewhere else to nest. We may also try and pull the wall down, rebiuld it once they are gone and point in the gaps. The house is sourrounded by cow pasture and has dense woodland not far away. We also have a couple of large barns which Im frightened thell be in as well.

Anyone got any other suggestions, solutions, advice. Im not naive enough to think I can get rid of them completely but this really is make or break

Thanks

Jo

 

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Hi Jo

Sorry you are having such a stressful time with the adders.  We have only seen whip snakes round our property and they are harmless, but I remember having spotted an anti-snake preparation in the gardening section of our local SuperU.  I think it was called something like 'serpent repulse' but it was quite clear from the package what it was for.  I've no idea how effective it is but on the belt and braces principle it might be worth buying some and giving it a go.

Good luck!

Val

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Jo, you poor thing.   I quite like snakes, but hate spiders, so I know what a phobia is like.    Many years ago I would never visit a country that had large snakes (eg Australia etc) because I wouldn't be able to go out, for fear of coming across one.    Eventually I realised how much this was impacting my life and I have been to places like Australia, and seen a few large spiders.   They still terrified me, but I did find that the reality was not as bad as the imagination (although only barely !!!).    Now I just aim to not see spiders.   If OH asks me to go in our cellar (spider hell), I march steadfastly forward, grab what I need and leave, without looking left right, up or down !!  Sadly you may also have to find some kind of coping mechanism, because I do not believe you can really buy anything which will totally get rid of snakes outside.    

 On a more positive note, if it's any consolation last summer (our first here), we saw upwards of 20 in our 'grounds' (including the bramble patch nest scenario).   This year, having finally got to grips with our acre plot (its still not pretty, but it's short grass and no huge patches of weed and other stuff that small camels could hide in), we have seen only one small snake on our property, hiding in a tarpaulin on top of some wood.  I think you will find that as you bring your grounds under control you will find a diminishment.  For info, we cleared out a barn and stables that had enormous amounts of rubbish/straw etc in, and there were no signs of any snakes, so its not a foregone conclusion that you will find them.

Sorry I can't give a more constructive reply, hopefully someone else will be able to.  Good luck and try not to let it spoil things for you.

 

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Chris

You kindly answered my questions about snakes last year.  Now we have seen baby snakes in a ruin on our grounds that we are going to partly pull down and partly renovate.  We don't mean the snakes any harm.  What, if anything, can we do to enable them to "get away" when we are working in our ruins?

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I was hoping that Daniel would pop in and answer these questions. I think that it would be very interesting if you are seeing common adders in South Burgundy, there are some in the Massif but I didn't think that would really apply to where you are, perhaps you could pin point your location. I'd be interested to know what Daniel thinks.

Difficult one, Sweet17, and I have to be honest and say that I don't remember what species of snake you have at your place. Either way they will either be in hibernation or going into hibernation about now, especially with the colder weather we are now experiencing, which makes things difficult. If you should come across any during renovation that are in hibernation it would be good if you had a hefty pile of logs with a thick base of straw, leaves and other woodland debris in a sheltered place where you could place them and cover them over. I have huge piles like this at my place that I have made for them and they use them every winter.[:D]

Chris

 

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Chris

I think we agreed last year that we have asp vipers.  Could make them shelters like you suggest except that our cocker spaniel would probably disturb them and give them no peace.  However, there are woods behind us and perhaps we could make some shelters for them in the woods.  Don't know how we'll induce them to go there though.

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yep definatley common (too common for my liking) adders. Ive been really brave and looked at some pictures that show the difference....no turned up snouts on these ones. We are in 71, the heart of Charollais country just between Charolles and Ciry le Noble.

jo

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If you come across them during hibernation, S17, it won't be difficult as they will be "asleep", cold and inactive, therefore very easy to move - you can just pop them into a cardboard box by picking them up by their tails, now there's a challenge for you.[;-)]

Fascinating Jo, I honestly didn't think that there were any in that region, I'll try and check it out. Obviously not good news for you, it must be quite scary to have a constant nagging in the back of your mind that you will come in close contact with one, but, as I said fascinating for me if they are there. I don't really believe that these repellents are that effective, best is to keep the areas that you use frequently clear of anything that gives them good cover, if nothing else you will easily see them... (maybe get a good photo... only joking).

Chris

Edit. little addition en Française.

La vipère péliade (Vipera berus):

Elle peut se rencontrer en altitude, même au-delà de 2500m.
Elle est plutôt présente en Normandie, Picardie, Nord de la France et Bretagne, avec une aire aussi dans le Massif Central, où elle cohabite avec la vipère aspic.
La vipère péliade préfère les endroits humides.

La vipère aspic et la vipère péliade se ressemblent avec, cependant, un museau légèrement retroussé pour la vipère aspic.
La composition , ainsi que les effets de leur venin sont très proches, et les sérums anti-venimeux sont préparés à partir de ces deux espèces

 

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