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Tony I do hope that with two best mates sitting opposite each other around the cabinet table that things do not change?

I can see the arguments now being put forward. Is it Ian Duncan Smith now Work and Pensions Manager. Was he once leader of the Conservative/Liberal Democrats party? I know the answer just a tongue in cheek comment.
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Update - and if I say anything about the decision already made either I'll be thrown out of the campaign forum or the site will be closed down.  Apparently because people using this site have not done what the other site owners have asked them to do (they have stated this publicly on the other forum  today), this site cannot share the information on the other site.  I have a different view of campaigning because I think that whether people are activists or not, sharing information is what is important but apparently the other forum owners see things differently.

So, today I have spoken to the DWP/ExpoTeam and the ICE officer dealing with my complaint.  DWP/ExpoTeam are slowly working through all the claims for reinstatement and are putting them through the Decision Makers following the Minister's February statement which is still being implemented.

The ICE position is more interesting.  They do not know that one of the test cases has been undesignated as a test case and they cannot yet say what will happen if the other test cases are dealt with in a similar manner other than it would seem to open the door to a flood of complaints and the possibility of 300 plus cases at the lower tribunal that the test cases should have disposed of.

When the ExpoTeam and ICE reply to my emails, I will post the responses here.

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OK, the other campaign forum has been closed down so here's the current position.  One of the lead cases - which is the case which attracted all the attention in the Anglophone newspapers in France - was won by the claimant as a result of an administrative error in the way the DWP dealt with his case tho the claimant and his carer didn't want that made public because it didn't apply to the other 300 plus claimants who were told this was a test case!

But for those 300 plus people it IS an important thing to know and why they didn't want others, like Forum members here, to know about it, defies understanding.   The decisions of the Lower Level Tribunals are not published in their entirety so can understand that to some extent but not to tell anybody outside the campaign forum that they have won after making so much fuss and getting so much publicity seems perverse.

Because of that decision, it is now debatable whether that was a test case and there is an ongoing discussion between the Tribunal Service and the various legal teams involved with the other Tribunal cases as to whether those cases heard on 3/4 March are in fact test cases because they do not reflect the circumstances of the other claims for reinstatement, the 300 plus other people who were bundled into this fiasco against their will !!!!!

Really really complicated.

In the meantime, the decision of the Minister, Jonathan Shaw (now an ex-MP) IS being implemented by the ExpoTeam and they have sent bundles of papers out to claimants which, once returned, are being passed to Decision Makers, who are still being told to ignore the previously used 26 week rule and the failure to appeal criteria, which should mean that the 300 plus people WILL get their benefit reinstated.  I spoke to the manager at the ExpoTeam yesterday and this IS definately the case so once the papers are returned to the DWP, they are being processed.

So it could be that the legal decsions are being sort of sidelined and the Minister's direct instructions are being followed. 


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Hi Tony

I was warned a long time ago that once a certain person won their claim, we would not see them for dust......How right they were.

I understand what you are saying about the Expoteam working to get our money back to October 2007 (but I do not think there are actually rushing), but where does it leave us now in getting our money back to our departure date from the UK.

Are we ALL having to go to appeal?

I think we can push them because they put us all on hold for 8 months under the pretext of 'Lead Cases'.

Together We Have Won........Even Though Rats and Sinking Ships Come To Mind

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Well Well Well what do we have here?

When the going gets tough, take the spiteful comments to another forum.

I am appalled and dismayed that the forefronters and creators of a dedicated forum, who have given their absolute ALL both publicly and privately to anyone and everyone who has asked for help, advice and support over a very long period of time, with both a forum dedicated email address and personal one, have now been attacked in such an unprovoked malicious manner.

Nobody has disappeared into dust, those people are still there waiting to help and support; and if I was either of them, I would have closed the door on the ungrateful and childish back stabbers who have a wooden spoon the size of their egos.

It will be interesting to see how many claimants do actually reveal all their own personal cirumstances when the chips are down, and maybe just maybe wish they still had a shoulder to cry on.

Good luck.


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Other Forum members should be aware that Jemma has been the spokesperson for the campaign Forum owners whilst their internet connection has been down for the past few weeks.  And it's interesting that this is the first of Gemma's posts and it's on this issue.

As one of the original claimants for reinstatement, long before other actually made their claims and with other people from this Forum, we were at the forefront of this campaign before others came onto the scene and some of us did a lot of the background legal and campaigning work and made suggestions and introductions that allowed other people to take the front seats.

I have nothing else to add to this other than the fact that I haven't yet been reinstated yet but will continue to find out what is happening and will pass that information - all of it - on to others where it is appropriate, I was one of the people working on the judicial review which was held over so others could take their test cases forward and I also agreed not to make a fuss to get my case heard so they could take the lead and lead on the publicity.

I have no axe to grind other than attempts being made to bully myself and others into silence and having seen the appalling emails that other people have been sent, I'm pleased to have been banned from the other forum.

That's my last comment on the other Forum, now I can get back to helping others get reinstated without having to look over my shoulder all the time.

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For all those who have decent memories, I was active on this forum under my AKA BareBackRider until the UK/EU forum was created. Hence, since then I have used a personal name rather than a 'nom de plume' and have remained on the 'dedicated' forum rather than on here.

I have never been a 'spokesperson' for the Campaigners, only to post updates as requested, as to the reasons for their absence; which in their honourable dedication felt they should keep all the forum users informed it was due to changeover of ISP.

Being aware of the appeal to the ECJ in 2005 it was included in my reasoning to have my allowance 'pended' until the outcome when it was revoked in 2006, and I was up there with the first claims after the ruling in 2007. During the months prior to the DWP conceding immediately before the 'test cases' at the beginning of March 2010, I had been in correspondence with the President of the EU Parliament, the EU Commissioner and the EU Secretary - in French, Spanish and Polish.

I am, like many others, waiting for the response from the DM.




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A post has been deleted please make sure posts comply with this forums Code of Conduct


Obviously something has gone on which is causing heated debate about this, please can I suggest that those of you who want to vent their spleen do so either by email or perhaps by setting up another chat facility. This forum cannot allow individual members to post messages which

  • Are insulting, abusive, racist, sexist, or derogatory in any way to others, whether they are individuals or companies, users of the Forum or not. This includes material sent via personal e-mails through this forum.

  • Threaten, intimidate, victimise or harass others.

  • Make libellous comments about individuals or companies, including Living France magazine and FRANCE magazine.

    Such posts will be deleted

    Needless to say those who feel let down and are wondering what to do next are very welcome to join this forum and take part in this thread, but hard though it may be, please keep any gripes you may have with other forums (whether current or not) and their participants out of the messages here.

    Thankyou   Russethouse

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    Good afternoon please can someone in the most simplest of terminology explain to me what is going on here?

    I was involved a long time back and for the cause drafted a rather substantial legal document.

    Here I will not repeat the arguments but freely offered my services and in an attempt to move the argument forward.

    It now seems to have been reduced to bickering between individuals and seemingly to exchanges on an open forum which are less than pleasant and indeed let us say direct

    In this regard I have no arguments either directly or indirectly with individuals the cause is the more important concept in my considered opinion and which is (fww)

    Finally I am somewhat saddened by the direction that this has taken and I know not why so hence the opening question as to what the heck has happened.

    I would prefer emails on a private basis for I would not wish to inflame the current situation. In saying that I have not received any updates in what must be three months of more from those and who whom I prepared the original document.

    In all matters intelligent thinking is called for respect for others paramount and if you disagree then simply do not throw grenades over the ether for a face to face discussion or over the phone is the better way forward.

    It is easy folks to be disagreeable over the internet and I am not sure you would repeat certain things which have been said on a direct basis.

    What the hell goes on


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    Apart from continuing to post information on here, a couple of us are going to set up a new site for other exchanges of information - which may be too personal to air in public - and an email contact list so people can communicate outside of this Forum - nothing against this Forum at all as many of you know but some personal things and tactics are best not discussed in public.

    If anybody who hasn't contacted me already wants to take part, please send me a private email and I'll add you to the list.

    Mods permitting I'll also post the new web address when I've finished organising it.

    The fight continues, the 'disenfranchised' 300 plus are still fighting and I hope to post a message explaining the remaining test case argument in the next 24 hours - it is VERY important to those of us still awaiting a decision.


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    Hi Tony and all

    Ok… deep breath (nerves)

    I am a lurker!

    Now is the time for all of us lurkers to pluck up the courage and come out of the woodwork to support and thank Tony and the others here that have done such a fantastic job.

    We are all fighting for the same cause, and there is strength in numbers. We have been let down by HMG and others but if we keep in mind our outcomes, not just our individual cases, but working for all those others that follow on after us. We can all help each other if we try, and we can do it together.

    I know what we are all going through is deeply frustrating, but by sharing and having each other to bounce things off we can resolve our predicament and help reach positive solutions.

    Come on Lurkers if I can do it so can you, support each other.

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    Well done mr blue sky

    i also want to thank every one involved and brave enough to stand up and be counted i have contributed a little but nothing on the scale of others in the same situation

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    See above :  Members wanting to be added to Tony's list should probably contact him via PM as its more reliable than the sites email.

    PM button is blue and is on the bottom left of the post.

    When you log in you will see a section for PMs just above the red bar which says 'Forum' 'Posts' etc. Click on it and it will take you to your PM messages.

    There is an email system but sometimes they bounce amd PMs are generally more reliable. Sorry !

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    Site is just about ready - Facebook site but closed so we can chat and I'll be sorting the emailing list out tomorrow morning , had to actually deal with some health issues over the past few days instead of just writing about them and I didn't realise that having a broken wrist can be such a pain in the bone.

    More to follow tomorrow.


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    Spoke to Andi (she was very polite and as helpful as they are allowed to be) this morning. The other week I was told my case was with the DM, but today it had still not reached the desk of a DM.

    I asked why it was taking so long as they had an extra 24 staff to deal with all the claims. WHAT extra 24 staff??, Andi said she would check with a manager as she was unware of any extra staff.

    An hour later she rang back and confirmed NO extra staff had been employed to the expo team? but she did say that they expect to have paid back everybody the money by the end of May.

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    Blimey, they're going to have to motor to get everybody paid out by the end of May, that's the week after next.

    Finished the new web contact site, it's here : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=117479494959353&ref=mf

    You have to join Facebook but you can put in very basic details to get on the site.

    I'm still working on the mailing list, unfortunately the broken wrist is proving more problematic than first thought and I'm having to visit the various cabinet for echo, scans and radio, all of which is taking time, on top of the leukeamia thing playing up!

    Still, as somebody keeps saying, we will get there!

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    Sorry to hear about your wrist, hope it heals quickly.Glad the FB site is up have requested to join. Have received a letter from DWP yesterday, tried to phone them today. but could only find the help line number am waiting for them to call back!!!

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    Excellent news. Somebody has contacted me this morning who was hit by the past presence test/failure to appeal ruling and they have been reinstated and will receive backdated payments to October 2007 which the DWP are calling it "the extra payment" for which there are some caveats on this payment, like you can't get it twice. ...

    And they (DWP) are also confirming that they are implementing the decision in ECJ C215/99, Jausch -v- Pensionsversicherungsanstalt, so that people who moved to Europe PRIOR to 8 March 2001 are NOT covered by this change so it appears that the battle for those people may continue, we await more clarification on this point.

    The backdating of payment from the date of disallowance to the ECJ 18 October 2007 is still the subject of a Tribunal hearing which is tied into the hearings of 3 March and we still don't know whether the Judges are going to declare them test/lead cases (as the DWP originally told us they are but in reality they're not) tho there are further submission being made to the Tribunal this week from the claimants about whether the cases should even continue as the DWP are already reinstating people.

    More detail from the people concerned on the Facebook site for those interested:


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