DLA some movement

[grecophile-2008]

I will quote from Mr Moran's letter of 20 May 2009.

"I can confirm that generally documents over 14 months old are routinely destroyed under the Department's document retention policy. We hold files that are not being used in a remote secured location. When a file is next required we request its return. The process normally takes a couple of days."

How many people like me were told categorically that all records including those in archives had been completely destroyed?

"We ask customers to use the group e-mail address to ensure that there is no delay in the mail being opened and processed. Where e-mails are sent to a named individual, delays can arise if for example the member of staff is not in the office."

How many people get no response at all from the group address or if they do does it take 21 days to even get a read receipt?

"I have noted your concerns about the form EXP1. This form was specifically designed to be used in both new claims and requests for re-instatement of benefit. We need to obtain evidence of the time a customer has spent in the UK in the past 52 weeks and whether any other benefits are in payment. I stress this information is crucial to the determination of claims and requests for re-instatement of benefit."

Of course they want you to answer Q16 as they are illegally using it to reject claims.

"The Exportability Team have sent you an explanation of how the legislation is applied. I have seen the explanation and agree with the content."

I am glad he has seen it because I certainly haven't.

"Your email of 14 May refers to two judgements. I am unable to comment on any other cases as each are considered on an individual basis."

In principle this is true but Mr Moran is forgetting that decisions by the Upper Tribunal are considered to be law and act as precedent, to be referred to in the appeal which 1st tier Tribunal's normally use as the basis of their judgement, along with common law if you can argue the case coherently.

At least we have it in writing now that the expo. team are acting with the full knowledge and consent of their bosses at the PDCS.

[dragonrouge]

Hi I have drafted some responses for Mr Moran through Tina and I am sure Tina will let you have the precis!

As to the legislation and how it is applied I am presuming here that he means the leglislation prior to the ECJ and the recent Upper Chamber decision?

I truly believe that these guys do not know the law and it will take a Tribunal for them to sit up and take aboard what we are saying.

If other cases are considered on an individual basis what are the basic considerations.

If it were me and it is not I would respond with comments and against 'email of 14 may I would ask what perameters are applied to the decision making process. Are there checks and balances applied in such decision making processes. Is there essentially a template basis in arriving in the decision making process. Can you confirm that your decison making processes comply with Wednesbury. Do not quote the 'header' for Wednesbury. He will not have a clue what it is about but it will make him ask others. Those are the sorts of questions I would pose in respect of your response.

[Russethouse]

Thought I had missed it, felt pretty sorry for the woman with the bail hostel next to her though.

[dragonrouge]

Dear Tina I know exactly where you are coming from but unless and seriously you get this right it is like the lady with a beard at the circus or someone exposing their wounds and injury for money.

There is a human story here but seriously I am of the opinion that we might be degrading everything by putting people up to the lenses and saying how much I need the cash and the like. That is the way I think it will come across.

I am of the opinion that the law is with us and that is what we should argue. However I might be wrong in all of this.

regards

[they think we are all mugs]

Well Tina,

very different numbers that I have just been given.

Through the FOI I asked 

" for the number of DLA claimants living outside of Great Britain but within the EEU that have been rejected since the European Court of Justice Ruling of 18^th October 2007. Due to the DWP guidelines of (i) not appealing within one month of the original decision and (ii) not been in the UK for at least 26 weeks out of the last 52 weeks."

 and the reply from Wendy Kettle was:

 

Since the European Court of Justice judgement on 18^th October 2007, 760 people have been notified of a decision to disallow Disability Living Allowance or Attendance Allowance because the customer did not meet the legal requirements relating to past presence in Great Britain. 450 of these customers had requested reinstatement of benefit outside of the time frames for appealing decisions laid down in legislation.

 

This reply was dated 29th May, but only emailed to me today 5th June.

 

But something very strange has happened at the Expo office..........I sent an email to them this morning, on another matter, but it was read within 3 minutes and a confirmation of my request was emailed to me in 2 hours even though I never even requested confirmation as it is normally a waste of time. 

 

[barebackrider]

This has appalled me. The DWP is - according to their own figures - chasing over £700m in overpaid and/or non-entitled benefits. Letters are dropping on doormats demanding repayment of monies claimed which they believe the claimants were not entitled to - believe it or not most are for DLA/AA/CA payments. Dates of leaving the UK are being questioned, and any time spent during payments received prior to that date is being asked for proof of. One person has been told he owes over £4000 for benefit he carried on receiving when he had moved to France, although he said he was moving back and forth until he notified them of permanance. He pointed out he receives £650 per month state pension with his wife's allowance and the DWP have accepted £5 per month. This story is on the internet.

It would appear that the elderly, sick and disabled are targeted once again, and no doubt a lot of very distressed people will be in turmoil with letters saying they owe thousands of pounds. Of course I am not saying that it is right to claim benefits which one is not entitled to, but by the same standard, will all the MP's be receiving letters from HMG debt collection demanding repayment? If the government had not denied the vulnerable in the first instance for so many years, those very same people who have paid their dues and demands all their lives and now are suffering poor health and poverty in some cases, the DWP are using their information to come swooping in - no doubt to justify any further delays in paying rightful legal payments within the law to those who unquestionably and undenyably deserve and qualify for it.

Errors of judgement and compassion are not words used often, and neither is a softly softly approach. The DWP make no apologies for their actions and can stand firm ground. Customers are tried and tested and found wanting- and left in limbo. I find it totally dispicable that the DWP are refusing to pay out what we know is lawful, and yet they can demand refunds of overpayments as soon as they believe they have made them.

Calculating the payments for benefits, informing the claimants (ooops sorry - customers) and discussing any 'overpayments' (should they be found to be correct) for deduction surely would be a human approach? But then again, England is just not England any more.

 

[Russethouse]

Hold on - you can't have it both ways. You start by telling a story of a couple who were deemed to have claimed £4000 that they are not entitled to yet are able to pay back at £5 per month.

You end by saying ' Calculating the payments for benefits, informing the claimants (ooops sorry - customers) and discussing any 'overpayments' (should they be found to be correct) for deduction surely would be a human approach?' 

How much more 'humane' do you want to get than £5 per month ? How old are these people ? It's going to take the UK 67 years to recoup the money at this rate

Not long ago there was a feature on the BBC about fraudulent claims for benefits from people living in the EU amounting to £63 million pounds. What would you like 'England' to do - just forget it ?

 

 

[barebackrider]

England used to have respect and care for the people who fought for and supported their country. England now cares for immigrants and rubbing noses in the brown stuff. Old people sometimes have to resort to a little forgetfulness to survive, unlike staking claims for luxuries and outright non existant loans and mortgages taken from public funding. Do you watch BGT? A pensioner on there was breakdancing - and was on disability benefits. That was disgraceful and making a mockery of what should be a helping hand to the needy.

I applaud the agreement for the £5 per month and have no criticism to make, it is a very generous offer. What I was saying was instead of writing to elderly sick and/or disabled people 'you owe us X and pay this outstanding amount within X days' and shocking the hell out of them, would it not be less heart attack material to write 'we have reviewed your case and inform you that an award of Y has been made, payable from Z to Z. However, according to our records.....etc' thus giving the person what they are rightfully entitled to and a chance to explain any anomolies?

I do not condone fraud, but I will say that God helps those that help themselves. HMG do the same for their own.

 

[Russethouse]

 Have you ever seen one of these letters ?

[Tony F Dordogne]

[quote user="PaysansG"]

Oliver Rowland, journalist at the Connexion France wants to put a piece together looking at the DLA issue from the perspective of those affected by the loss of benefit and their attempts to get reinstated.

Anyone interested in putting their story up as a case study should contact Oliver direct at:

[email protected]

Oliver wants to include photographs of affected claimants, so if you are camera-shy then this might not be the right project for you to volunteer for :))

kind regards, Tina

[/quote]

Under normal circumstances I might be interested in this offer of a journalist getting involved but to be honest, Connexion have got SO much wrong about so many things over the past couple of years, I don't trust them enough. 

[barebackrider]

The one asking for repayment in X days - yes - the lady who received it was extremely distraught and had a panic attack - not nice to witness.

[ali-cat]

I received a letter this morning from the Disabilities & Carers Service, Belfast, informing me that:-

“From & including 02.08.06 – You remain entitled to the same rate of the care component. This is because your Disability Living allowance (care component) can continue to be paid whilst you are living in another EEA state or Switzerland. This is because you are in receipt of a state pension, Long-term Incapacity Benefit or Bereavement Benefit from Northern Ireland & because you are not entitled to any other benefits from abroad & you are not working abroad.”

I am, of course, still not entitled to receive the mobility component but can appeal that decision within a month, which I intend to do as it is now being discussed in Europe.

When I saw the envelope I automatically presumed it was yet another date for my tribunal – so if anyone wants a copy of the letter I sent to the Appeals Service, which the DLA branch could evidentially not argue against, please let me know & I'll send you a copy.

[rockstitch]

Hi, How do you know that the mobility componement is being discussed, Are you saying that there is a chance that it might be paid also, this would be great not only for myself but for my brother who had a stroke before leaving N Ireland and would gladly welcome the extra money as his car is about 7years old now and is starting to show some wear. I would love to have a copy of the letter that you sent to the Appeals Service.

Regards Sam

[ali-cat]

Sam, as far as I can remember there are at least two test cases dealing with the exportability of the mobility component going through the Upper Tribunal at present. Since the ruling of the ECJ case C-299/05 I think it is being argued that mobility component should be regarded as a sickness benefit, as the care component now is. Depending on when you left Northern Ireland & if, like me your case/appeal was never closed regarding the care component, it may become an exportable benefit. I will PM you shortly with my letter.

Puzzled. I am in receipt of Long Term Incapacity Benefit – it's why I typed out the full paragraph as it struck me as a possible sticking point for others. I hope it's not another spanner the department is hoping to throw into the works.

[Tony F Dordogne]

[quote user="ali-cat"]Sam, as far as I can remember there are at least two test cases dealing with the exportability of the mobility component going through the Upper Tribunal at present. Since the ruling of the ECJ case C-299/05 I think it is being argued that mobility component should be regarded as a sickness benefit, as the care component now is. Depending on when you left Northern Ireland & if, like me your case/appeal was never closed regarding the care component, it may become an exportable benefit. I will PM you shortly with my letter.

Puzzled. I am in receipt of Long Term Incapacity Benefit – it's why I typed out the full paragraph as it struck me as a possible sticking point for others. I hope it's not another spanner the department is hoping to throw into the works.

[/quote]

Isn't the reason that Ali-cat's case has been dealt with is that her care component case hasn't been closed and wouldn't have been because of overlapping moving to France/ECJ dates?  Whereas for the rest of us, our cases have been long closed?

Good on you Alicat!!

[ali-cat]

Thank you Tony for your elegant words of congratulations! [:D]

I just want remind you of the dates involved in my case as I'm not sure they do overlap the ECJ ruling. My DLA was stopped on 02.08.06 on the grounds of having left the UK and I didn't appeal until 14.03.07 – well beyond the one month time period allowed. My appeal was accepted as my argument at the time was “I now understand that a legal case is being taken against the UK Government concerning the legality of refusing DLA to UK citizens who have moved abroad. This being the case I now consider your decision to be incorrect and that the explanation given prevented me from appealing the decision within the required period”. The ECJ ruling was not decided until 18th October 2007, so my appeal was literally “keep on hold” until the DLA branch evidently received instruction, which resulted in my letter today.

Don't know if that's of any help or consequence – but I hope it may help someone.

[barebackrider]

Ali Cat

congratulations! so pleased for you!

and thank you for including your 'statement' - ironically it is similar to the one we made - 14th August 2006 - and we received our last 'get lost you are not in the UK' letter at the end of October 2006.

good for you.

BBR

[dragonrouge]

NI do things somewhat differently to the mainland. Lots of things are devolved to NI including DLA and the like.

Obviously I am Welsh and certain things are devolved to Wales but not DLA.

I am not sure but is DLA and the like devolved to Scotland and is there evidence from Scotland on the same point?

Obviously this information from NI is very useful in any Tribunal on the mainland for whilst it is not as easy 'They have it in NI why cannot I have it here in England' but it can be used simply that NI have interpreted the law differently so are Blackpool at fault in their interpretation? Or are things that different in NI? The law is the law wherever it falls.

[stewdowney]

Hi Ali-cat

First well done and congratulations.

I have tried to email you but it is returned to sender.

Please could you send us a copy of your appeal letter so we can add it to our claim file with the recent tribunals wins as our file is still at the desision makers table since 19.3.09.

We have also kept in contact with the DWP since the stopped ours in Dec 2005 and so should be in their 13 month criteria even though we did not know the ECJ claim was going through.

Best regards

Stew/Ellie Downey & our 2 cats (Sparky & Sal)

[Tony F Dordogne]

Well, just phones Wendy Kettle's extension and got the latest on my claim for reinstatement.  It was sent to the decision makers on 26 May and I will hear in due course, so no decision made yet.  But, the person I spoke to DID conform that the decision makers are using the Trubunal decision on past presence now to evaluate claims.

Fingers crossed.

[dragonrouge]

I have read both the NI and the UK DM guide and they differ.

I had thought to be able to compare and contrast but unfortunately lots going on I am seriously unwell today not sure but a bug of some sort and the wind and the weather here in the Vendee has got me down. Like November. I am going further south if this continues. They said south of the Loire better weather you should see the trees down.

Will post something tomorrow

[barebackrider]

Fingers toes legs and eyes!!!!! Reach out and touch somebody's hand.......

bright blessings

BBR

[barebackrider]

Well here goes another saga. I sent a recorded delivery letter 3 weeks ago (backed up by email) and have received no acknowledgement or response to date. The letter stated if my husband's claim for reinstatement was 'negative' he would like confirmation to that effect and the claim to be annotated and move straight to tribunal (delays in post etc)

I rang this afternoon, and was told that no decision has been made - but as he appealed they cannot overturn that decision - I asked 'if he had not appealed would the decision be a yes then?' response  'I am not saying that' - then I got the 26/52 week ruling (if this was a new claim from where you live in France) which I replied yes but it is not a new claim it is reinstatement and is not applicable etc etc and quoted the last Upper Tribunal case on May 5th. I was told every case is individual and it does not set a presedence.

So I asked, how long before he receives the refusal letter so we can move to appeal, no timescale, cannot answer that either, even though I said in my letter that everything has to have a finite ending.

Finally she said there are lots of cases like this one, and I cannot say how long it will take. I said so he has to sit and wait for a letter eventually to arrive to say the claim has been refused, and then we go through the appeal procedure again? Reply, I am sorry I cannot say any more than what I have, and I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

So was I.

BBR

[stewdowney]

Hi BBR

We are in the same boat as you because we went to an appeal tribunal and are just left in limbo at the moment. I did get to speak to a decision maker at the carers export team she said that they are waiting on more guidance on this situation so lets hope it will be good news or they might just move the goal posts again.

Regards

Stew/Ellie

[dragonrouge]

This is like a game of poker wiith lots of bluff. Are we saying that simply by going to an appeal as against asking the DM to review his or her decision that things just sit there. Here just a question if you were a DM and someone says to you review your decision what would you as a so called human being (the DM's that is) do it would take someone with lots of undercarriage to say I got that wrong! That is what appeals Tribunals Courts of Appeal are for to put right the DM's of this world.