Joining the Exodus from France?

[Cerise]

When I was small Gastines my parents moved house and my mother left my brother (then a baby) in the pram in the garden whilst all was loaded.  Yes, you've guessed they went off without the baby.  10 minutes down the road mother realised - major panic but baby was still there safe and sound.

When we moved here from UK we realised that the van had left without taking the kitchen stools as we had all been sitting on them drinking the last minute coffee!  They made up for tht though by taking my 2 metre high umbrella palnt and one or two other nice house plants and looking after them in their offices for 6 weeks whilst the furniture was in storage and even repotting my rubber plant to make it safer for the journey.

[Framboise]

addendum.................Been searching for a pen name actually.   Since there are Crevettes, Pandas, & Cerises  I thought "Why not indeed", thus I will stick with this one now!.  I  changed the picture 'cos I love flowers - haven't you noticed the other one was a Nelly Moser clematis and these are wildflowers growing in my French garden meadow?

I agree that it is the financial gains that have enabled so many to Live Their Dreams and move to France or Spain and we will be following suit next year of course, but had things been different we would have done this 15 years ago - long before house values went stratospheric in UK. The downside of this is that the younger generations wanting to own their own homes here have very little chance of ever doing so now when in this area a small 1930s terrace will cost you £280,000 upwards not counting all the renovations needed to make them half decent and its often more if you happen want a garden bigger than a postage stamp.  My son is in this exact predicament which is why he will move back into our home when we leave the country.   

We are fortunate to be able to follow Our Dream to fruition because many never have the chance to find theirs, and I look on it that there are problems everywhere you go regardless of how idyllic it all seems when you visit that place on holiday.  You said it yourself  "hearing it all the time in Bars from people who have escaped...." well, there must be an element of truth in there somewhere surely for so many people to reiterate it to you?    There are many disillusioned people contemplating doing as we are so please don't knock us for wanting the chance at least to make a better future for ourselves.  You have already done it after all.

[Gastines]

Framboise alias ?  It would be nice to know where you hail from in UK. Our offspring are housed but we try not to think about their outgoings. One daughter lives in a house valued at £220k Plus but it is so badly built and finished we try not to think of it in short term never mind long term. The 3rd bedroom, as they call it, is too small to fit a single bed in, without trying to get any other furnishings in. I've already had to go back and take the butchered chipboard flooring up and try to stop the floor bouncing and cupboards rattling when you walk across it. Still, the building inspector passed it, so it must be just my view. When people say this house was only "£200k and we have a mortgage of £150k, I wonder if they ever work out what it is actually costing? In Bournemouth where we hailed from, the property prices were horrendous but the wages were amongst the lowest in the country. The daughter speaks French and has worked here so we are hoping!!

Too many postings  but the TV is rubbish tonight. Just been down the road to try and spot our local Kingfisher but he's hiding as well.

Regards.

[zeb]

Not knocking your desire to move to France at all Framboise, just pointing out that it's not all hunky-dory here unless you isolate yourselves from real France like the guys in our local bars who have been here the same length of time as I, but whose rants are the same as yours.

Yes, of course there is an element of truth for some but it isn't the UK that I recognise and love. I just think these people must have really sad boring lives to constantly rant about stuff that was pure Daily Mail and, even if it were all true and not exaggerated, didn't even affect them.

I used to 'hang around in bars" for the benefit of my business (LOL), but I couldn't bear it in the end.

Right nuff said on this subject - I'm off to work!

[Gastines]

To add a lighter note to the France versus UK bashing and going back to "Moving  experiences",. When in my younger days all I did was fit carpets,I have the knees to prove it, one move-in comes to mind. I was waiting for the Vendors to move out,late of course, so I could get in to lay the new carpets before the buyer,waiting outside with his removal van +effects, could move in. I used to ask the removal men which rooms they wanted doing first to suit the order for unloading. This way I didn't have to move stacks of furniture before I could do my job,paid by the square yard and not for moving pianos etc. Sometimes awkward if it was a patterned carpet all doorways matching off the hall which the client didn't want laid untill the removal men had gone!! However, on taking up the old carpet and felt, thoughtfully left behind by the vendor,my helper and I were delighted to find ROWS of nicely laid out five pound notes. When collected up we had a pile about 6 inches high. Being dim, we handed them to the buyer, who's name funnily enough was Mr.Christmas, to give to the Vendor. No, we didn't get a Christmas box or a thankyou either.

Regards.

[worldtuner]

There is little difference between the UK and France in many ways, it is a misconception by many north Europeans, that one country is better than another, but in reality they are all the same, it is what you make of it, should the English see weekly TV programs of the beauty of the Cotswolds or the Dales, then they would holiday there and then maybe buy there. What is really sad is that so many Brits have the idea of selling their little house in the UK giving up their employment, move lock stock and barrel to go to France/Spain with little money in hope of buying an old barn and turning it into a chateau, then living happy ever after with no money and no language skills, thinking the French and Spanish talk like the British TV shows, what they do not realise is that they are now the immigrate problem that they were running away from in the first place.

Anyway, there are many towns and cities in France which have the same world problems, be it drugs or immigration, which cause the social problems you mentioned, no matter, what the police or Governments do you cannot wipeout the drug culture or the immigration problems they are here to stay and will spread unless you educate the parents on how to raise their young, there is no excuse, France, Spain and Italy have always had the family at heart, evening meals together, holidays together, family garden parties, but the British, miss this part of life, they jibe each member of the family, specially the grand parents, those that immigrate like what they see, but can not intergrate, it has taken us centuries to have this culture, you can not change within your life time, but bring your problems with you the same as the immigrates that migrate to the UK, we Europeans have stood up against our Governments that try to bring laws against our basic lives and country.      

[Athene]

'There is little difference between the UK and France in many ways, it is a misconception by many north Europeans, that one country is better than another, but in reality they are all the same,'

 

I beg to differ with you! French people are proud of their country and indeed have a great deal to be proud of! We English are in many cases disillusioned by the state of our country under its new Scottish PM! There are so many problems in the UK - starting with third world style hospitals with BIG infection problems and long waiting lists that the government blatantly denies are there!. France has some of the best hospitals in Europe! AND you can get treatment promptly! In the UK, the road network is continually having to be re-surfaced and then patched - why can't they build it right to start with? And Coning is a fine art here in the UK and the special tour de force is to have miles apon miles of it complete with speed cameras and cross over carriageways sections with actually nothing being done to the road whatsoever! Then if you do by some lucky chance happen across a road repair gang, look and see how many are actually working! That is wielding a shovel for instance and not leaning on one nattering or snuggled up in the cab of some van! Not many workers I will hasard a guess! The France road network is superb and, despite the country being in debt, it does not seem to have slowed down on their road building plans. We always notice such a difference between the M20 to Ashford and then the French motorways that are skating rink smooth! We travel with two elderly cats and one continually gives it large on UK roads and then settles down to sleep on the French ones! And our schools - a subject close to my heart as a retired teacher who goes back and is saddened by seeing what is going on! Poor teachers wading through realms of useless paperwork just to please OFSTED inspectors and not actually spending much time on planning lessons for their classes! Then there is the lack of funding... Oh I could ramble on indefinitely!

What do the rest of you think? Is there any chance the UK will improve? I would like to think so!

No I disagree with World Tuner, I think there are very big, important differences between the UK and France!

[Framboise]

Well said Athene!  Were it the same here as France, why would people bother leaving?

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Athene"]

'There is little difference between the UK and France in many ways, it is a misconception by many north Europeans, that one country is better than another, but in reality they are all the same,'

 

I beg to differ with you! French people are proud of their country and indeed have a great deal to be proud of! We English are in many cases disillusioned by the state of our country under its new Scottish PM! There are so many problems in the UK - starting with third world style hospitals with BIG infection problems and long waiting lists that the government blatantly denies are there!. France has some of the best hospitals in Europe! AND you can get treatment promptly! In the UK, the road network is continually having to be re-surfaced and then patched - why can't they build it right to start with? And Coning is a fine art here in the UK and the special tour de force is to have miles apon miles of it complete with speed cameras and cross over carriageways sections with actually nothing being done to the road whatsoever! Then if you do by some lucky chance happen across a road repair gang, look and see how many are actually working! That is wielding a shovel for instance and not leaning on one nattering or snuggled up in the cab of some van! Not many workers I will hasard a guess! The France road network is superb and, despite the country being in debt, it does not seem to have slowed down on their road building plans. We always notice such a difference between the M20 to Ashford and then the French motorways that are skating rink smooth! We travel with two elderly cats and one continually gives it large on UK roads and then settles down to sleep on the French ones! And our schools - a subject close to my heart as a retired teacher who goes back and is saddened by seeing what is going on! Poor teachers wading through realms of useless paperwork just to please OFSTED inspectors and not actually spending much time on planning lessons for their classes! Then there is the lack of funding... Oh I could ramble on indefinitely!

What do the rest of you think? Is there any chance the UK will improve? I would like to think so!

No I disagree with World Tuner, I think there are very big, important differences between the UK and France![/quote]

I do not  totaly agree with world Turner, but I do think there is alot in what he says.

All countries have their good and bad sides, I'm sure there are plenty that could ' ramble on indefinitely' about the failures of France or any other country

I think that many people are disillusioned with Britain, but I am not one of them. I love Britain, I am happy here, as a family we have had excellent education for our two children, good health care, I live in  the country just outside a small town, day to day living for us is no worse nor better than it was 20 years ago.I could 'ramble on indefinitly' about the good things about Britain, but everyone see what they want out of every different sitiation, so I won't !

I admire people who wish to build a new life, I would do the same, you wouldn't see me for dust if I thought I was wasting my life away, unhappy, If you have the drive to get off the merry-go-round and do something about it, good luck to you I say. But do it for the right reasons, going to another country will not help a failing marriage or get you away from an unhappy life, you'll just find a whole new set of problems.

Chipie

 

[jon]

I will begin at the begining which commences with the last few sentances.....In some ways a failing marriage can be related to great discontent with the surroundings one is in and the struggle one  faces  creating a real and happy future.

England once a place which I loved for so many reasons....London  is about money...it is a place where you can become well aquainted with lonelyness.I have great friends....and will miss them when I go to live in France but they are so busy chasing an income and then resting after the exhaustion of doing so that their social life is left to whither.Some of my best friends have amazing jobs and others are despearte to fill shelves in a supermarket....but they are rejected because there is a huge influx of  cheaper labour from eastern europeans who are in their twenties....my friends are older.

So when I go to France I will miss these friends in theory.....I will meet more people....and my pals will pop over for a few days.

The hospitals ......a nightmare.....should be sueing but would die of stress in the process.Yes they are dirty and yes they are generally miss-managed.....funds are badly uused and placated badly.I know that the medical services in France are good.....one of my best friends is there and her and her husband are being very well treated.

I only like good food and I can buy this in France....fresh fish and shell fish is available at a price which is acceptable in London it is crazy.The supermarkets are great....they have great offers which enable people to treat themselves to goodies.

London is generally dirty......wherever I go in France I find it clean.

PARKING MOST OF THE TIME ....it seems to be free........We pay for residence parking and find it hell to get a space......so we end up keeping the car parked and taking buses....or walking.

Druggies and hoodies.......well  it seems that London being the capitol of Easy money it is easy pickings ....so watch were you walk and have your eyes at the back of your head.....

You can find a little piece of heaven in the form of a beautiful old house and a garden with mature trees and flowers....there is probably a haven for everyone at a fraction of UK prices.

Set backs......well the French are not so good at macking good coffee....what they do with their Gaggias I am not sure........but thank GOODNESS I will have my expresso machine with me when I move.

[jon]

running to France.............from London

[Gastines]

Going back to my original posting,the subject was more about moving and the situations arising rather than a moan about the UK or France. Everybody's situation is different and there reasons for moving ,whether it be to France/UK or further up the road. Let me put it this way, the friends/people that we know who are moving back nearly always give the same reasons. Missing family ,friends or financial but again,it's all down to personal feelings and situations.

While you're here, I hope you enjoy it.

Regards.

[Turnip]

Why do they come to France - but then return to the UK?

Because they are seduced by the many TV programmes extolling the virtues of living in France yet fail to mention the high unemployment or cost of renovating those qaint pile of ruins the locals sell so expertly to Brits. Then there are those Brits. trying to escape problems of their own making but merely succeed in taking their mental baggage, plus rose tinted specs., to anothercountry with its' Brit. ghetto: For them the next place is always better than the last. Some, prior to the above TV programms, actually moved to France for more rational reasons.

[jon]

Turnip....People always move on to another country to m ake a change and hope fully improve their lifestyle.What is wrong with that?

Why not look at my cirmstunstances and you will understand.Owned a restaurant.. ....105% mortgage!.worked exceptionally hard .....loved my work......got extreemly ill.....recovered....went back to work....struggled for a couple of years....buisness started to bloom after 20 or more years of struggle.Sold the buisness....to slow down...

Love France...the great ingredients.....Once a chef always a chef .Neither my partner or I have enjoyed our TV appearances so that is not our thing.However we did achieve accolades and do have adequate knowledge and technique to teach people to cook and to produce food to the level of one star Michelin for the dinner table.So to choose a lovely home and  make it warm and interesting and ready to receive our guest for maybe16 weeks of the year.I am not expecting  to be have guests all the time.

T.V productions.....the ones which you have seen......the producers like a little drama...a little trouble to add a little spice to the menu....suprising how many people enjoy doom and gloom.But the picture is not all doom and gloom in France.

If you expect to go to another country without a penny in your pocket.....the way many people arrive in England...forget it.You have to organise yourself.I WILL ADD that when I was down on my luck in England and unable to work for six months beacuse I owned my own company...(and to do my work, by the way had to pay two people)I received no financial help from the state to pay my mortagage or to assist in any manner......(even though I was very sick)The buisness was suffering badly at that point.However when we sold..........the state received a very large contribution from me.I sold at the right time....ready to find that place in France.

Not to be ....my father became progressively ill and my mother died premeturely because the hospital was not interested to save her life.Long story....sad story because this hospital was a place where nightmares began and ended.My father died in there soon after.I hate the hospital, their system, the nonchalonce and the ugliness of the area which surrounds this grey array of  mispresentation of achitecture

When I get to France I will find the peace and tranquility which I am needing to finish writing about the amazing people and situations which have entered my life as I worked in restaurants.

I can not afford to do what I need to do and how I want to do it here in England......

[Turnip]

Jon,

I am sure you come under, " moving to France for more rational reasons." I wish you well in your endeavours and hope you enjoy happier times.

[Wendy]

Maybe many come here looking for the life here that their parents/grandparents enjoyed in England.  The prob is England 'sold out', the French haven't. Yet.

[Athene]

I do agree with you Wen! I was brought up in the North of England and the common curtsey and friendliness of our neighbours in France puts me in mind of this. They have welcomed us with open arms into their village. It is a very different culture to life near London nowadays where most neighbours are not hostile but just nod and mumble a greeting in passing and go their own ways - a bit like 'you in your small corner and me in mine!' Sometimes I will pause to bandy a remark but it is not ever something they would do and I can see they are thinking I do hope she is not going to rabbit on and to stop us getting on! In France things are very different! Our neighbours knock on the door and come in - nothing needs to be locked! If you are eating no matter, they sit down and chat away and you offer them a drink or a portion of food. If they need help, they ask for it and vice versa. If any of us has a surplus of produce, it is shared. Yes, it has been easier for us as we speak French. We have not rushed into our decision to move out - we have had our house for 7 years. Luckily we are the golden oldies, so we do not have to find full-time work but will do some 'chambre d'hote' to put a little jam on the bread!

'All countries have their good and bad sides, I'm sure there are plenty that could ' ramble on indefinitely' about the failures of France or any other country'

I am sure France as a country does have its problems economically and politically. However this will not affect us greatly I feel. My father used to say about politics that the good politicians do, he would share and the bad - well he would suffer that too - life is like that. At the end of the day, we will keep the Essex house and enjoy the rental income. Will we ever come back? Who knows! Maybe if hospitals are straightened out and one of us has passed and the other feels the need to be nearer to the family.

I think everyone should live for the moment and make what you perceive is the best use of your allotted time. We are all different and what is good for one is not good for another!

'Chaqu'un a son gout!'

 

[Framboise]

Will the French "sell out" though?   I thought that they were too bloody-minded to allow that to happen.

 

[Wendy]

Framboise, I cannot ever see the French 'selling out'. They protect their way of life too much, and one more important thing, they also instil that 'way of life' into their children. It gets passed down. 'Family' still matters here. Its also the fact that they do not have a policy of multi-culturalism...its either integrate or leave. Well...thats what we have all found we have had to do is that not correct?. They also keep the voting restricted to French citizens so no outside influences can get a foot in with their own agenda. The villagers locally do everything as they always have done, no matter how many foreigners come here to live, simply because the French stay in control of things. Thats where the UK has gone wrong.

[Clair]

[quote user="wen"]They also keep the voting restricted to French citizens so no outside influences can get a foot in with their own agenda.[/quote]

Same as in the UK then! I was not allowed to vote at national level until I became a British citizen...

[Wendy]

Yes Clair...but look at how easy it is to become a British citizen compared to what it takes to be a French citizen. My youngest son was actually born here, but cannot take real ctiizenship here until he is 18.

The UK have made it all too easy. The French still require you to speak some degree of French...how many imported 'British citizens' speak English...? In some communities, none .

[Clair]

[quote user="wen"]Yes Clair...but look at how easy it is to become a British citizen compared to what it takes to be a French citizen. My youngest son was actually born here, but cannot take real ctiizenship here until he is 18.

The UK have made it all too easy. The French still require you to speak some degree of French...how many imported 'British citizens' speak English...? In some communities, none .[/quote]

But what does it have to do with being able to vote in France? You can vote in France. All you need to do is to register at your mairie. Your son will have to wait until he is 18.

[Wendy]

We are not 'French citizens' and have no intention of ever being so. My partner is UK born and yet could not vote in the recent Presidential elections. We asked at the mairie and they said 'french citizens only can vote'. Living, running a business here, and paying tax does not give you the right to vote for in this election. European council elections though...yes.

And, as far as I know, they only allow French-born citizens to run for Maire.

 

[John L]

Wen wrote:

And, as far as I know, they only allow French-born citizens to run for Maire.

Not True Wen

There is/was an English woman who became the Maire of a French village a few years ago. I dont know if she is still doing it.

[Clair]

[quote]Le Traité de Maastricht (1992) a institué une citoyenneté de l’Union.

Les citoyens de l’Union sont les personnes ayant la nationalité d’un

Etat membre. Le Traité leur accorde le droit de vote et d’éligibilité

aux élections municipales et européennes.

www.vie-publique.fr[/quote]

In France as in the UK, EU nationals cannot vote at national level.