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Joining the Exodus from France?


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Hello Pat!,

I still like the area we live in here, even though it has deteriorated as the Green Belt has vanished under concrete as everything is built on or over.  This area seems to be endless traffic now, never a moment's peace........  God I sound bloody old, and I'm not.  Honest!!

However, no matter what we will still be English, probably thought of as "those potty ones who bought that wreck down the road" by the neighbours, and yet we have become so disillusioned with how England has deteriorated in the last ten years or so that for us it is time to get out.  Our children are staying here for the time being (Oh one is coming with us), so the house will remain ours but for my husband and I we have found Our Place which is all we ever wanted and leaving her behind is a terrible wrench every time.   The subtle difference between our house here and that in France is that I could happily close the door here and never give it a backwards glance, mainly because I know the kids will look after this one as they all grew up here, but hubby and I found our dream and grasped it with both hands.  We see our setting off to a new life together  as natural progression, a bigger-than-usual- step in the scheme of things,  and anyway, the kids will have to do something for themselves when we are gone won't they!!  

Our biggest regret is that we were unable to make this move when the children were young enough to make the transition, but now they are all grown up (allegedly) it is the right time to do this for US.   We are I suppose "Empty Nesters" but we are the ones flying the coop, not the kids.

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To Ernie Y. Yes ,I was surprised that I didn't get a few brick-bats about that. It is a very serious point and basically I think a view that depends on your religious persuasoins  and possibly your insurance policies. I would say I'm a non-believer and have thought when the subject comes to mind, that rather than be a burden or be a vegetative state,I would opt for an easier option for myself and family. Whether at the time,not yet hopefully, I would still think the same, or be in a position to do anything about it, remains to be seen. Many years ago I visited Lourdes with my wife and I found it a very moving and also upsetting experience. Whilst I can understand sufferers going there for some hope and strength from their faith, I decided that would not be a route I could take or force on anyone else. I would add my wife totally opposes and disagrees with my view,as she does on many .

Regards.

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I have made a verbal living will for my daughters to follow.  If I am mentally competent I don't mind being a bit of a burden, as long as I still have some quality of life.  However, if I become demented and

cannot enjoy a conversation, reading, music, TV. etc. I would prefer to die.  I watched my mother's personality deteriorate over five years until she was in a state of permanent anxiety, not knowing who she was or who we were.  At 90, she developed pneumonia, which to us seemed nature's way of saying it was time to let go, but the hospital insisted on filling her full of antibiotics and were very proud that they had saved her life.  What life? She lingered for another year of misery. I do appreciate that I cannot ask my daughters or medical staff to break the law, but I do not want any artificial means of keeping me alive to be used. 

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I suspect many of us feel similarly though whether we express it or not is a different matter.

Re Living Wills, have you made one in France, indeed is it legally allowed. It's something we have yet to look into.

I'm not sure how a UK Living Will would work in France if at all.

My my, this thread has got somewhat off track, or are we now just talking about an entirely different sort of exodus.....................[blink]

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Living Wills??    What about written Wills that are not used or simply ignored?  My poor old mother-in-law passed away two years ago thinking she had signed, sealed and delivered her final wishes to make them watertight against her second husband's greedy grasping son.  (He is not a blood relative.  Mum married his late father).  Unfortunately for us it seems that we shall have to go to Court to repel this avaricious little worm who has had her estate frozen for two years simply because the Govt. enables him to do so, in spite of the fact he has no proof whatsoever of his ridiculous claim and that Mum cut him out of her life as soon as she realised he was after her money.    Frankly, it makes me wonder if its actually worth bothering with writing Wills when this nonsense can be allowed to happen, aided and abetted by the legal profession.    

Get the idea I am not amused somehow??

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Hello Moya,

your tale is not unusual sadly! I have a friend who is having to go to court to contest a claim on her later mother's inheritance. It seems that a man who had preyed on her mother for two years at the end of her life has produced a will that proports to leave her mother's worldly goods to himself and to her two grand daughters, thus cutting my friend out entirely. The old mother was being treated for Alzheimer's and was very confused and her solicitor is prepared to go to court to say that at the time this last will was signed, he personally had his doubts as to whether it was her decision to change her will or whether this leech was railroading her into it! Now this lady had a considerable amount of money so the leech stands to gain big time if he wins, so he is going to court with a barrister! All this is so stressful and it seems you have the same situation! I do sympathise!

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[quote user="moya"]

.

Our reasons for this are pretty much like everyone elses because we too are fed-up with being persecuted by the Government, harrangued and bothered by Jobsworths and having every single civil liberty removed by Those We Stupidly Elected under False Pretences, moreover we admire the way the French people simply do not take this type of garbage from their ilustrious leaders and promptly oust them, rather than wring their hands and whimper as we appear to do so very well. We also admire the way the French Govt. don't accept any of the EEC nonsense if they feel it is against Their Culture and simply ignore it, whereas how often do we see Our Lot grovellng to some Euro stuffed shirt and signing us up to yet another disaster for this country? Disasters to which we are given absolutely no say-so as to whether WE want them or not! Well for us, we reached the end of the line with it all and are set to pursue our future in France next year when the house is moreorless finished and our daughter has finished her appenticeship. Our life becomes our own at last yippeeee!!!

[/quote]

While I hope everything goes swimmingly for you Moya, I'd be really interested to hear your views on France and French politics and burocracy in five years time, and if you still have your rosy specs on.

We are feeling well and truely beaten (by France) at the moment, and may move back to a much easier (but perhaps, noisier) life in the UK!
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Like Zeb I feel that Moya has got on very rosy specs. I live permanently in France and enjoy it here, but as has often been written on these forums, it is a warts and all life. You say that the French government ignores EU rules if it is against French culture - example please.

There is an oft-expressed view that France now is somewhat like the UK was in the 70s. Powerful unions, high unemployment, disaffected inner-city youths and slow economic growth. Jobsworths and bureaucracy sound like much the same thing to me, and there is plenty of the latter over here.

What is this ousting of French leaders by the people? Do you mean inner-city riots to protest about the democratically elected president, otherwise I wasn't aware there had been a revolution recently.

I hope you settle well in France but many on this forum will agree with me that you move to another country to experience the life there, not to escape from perceived inadequacies of your present country.  

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Just arrived back here in UK after five days of bliss in our house.

In reply to Zeb and others whose comments I have just read :-

My old Grandad said many decades ago of politicians "All tarred with the same brush........" and they are, be they French, American, British, Chinese etc.   The point I was making is that we are utterly fed-up with life here that if we are to be persecuted by beaurocracy, then it might as well be in a place that we love and feel happy in,  rather than in UK where it is one fiasco after another and furthermore, IF Sarkozy turns out to be a Tone-Alike we will have had plenty of practice already in being PC doormats to the World!   Maybe I am disillusioned with life in UK but I know we are doing the right thing for us ultimately.

As for my rosy specs.  The scales fell from my eyes years ago so rosy specs are useless to me and actually life can be very tough wherever you are in this world - some places more than others.  What are all the refugees after as they desparately try to gain access to England?   (Apart from money and an easy ride)  They look on this place with rosy specs surely?   From a personal viewpoint, If yearning to be elsewhere in a place we love and feel at home in makes us appear naieve or somehow wrong, well bring it on babe because we are ready!    

We will of course return to UK to visit our family & friends here, but as far as I am concerned this is the last house move we will make and my final journey in my Box will definately NOT be back to England as I intend to remain in France to rejoin the soil there.   Regardless of the government we happen to like the peace and quiet, the lovely people we have met and the laid-back lifestyle in France, all of which are enough reasons why we are going ahead with our plans, so in closing -

All of you lucky people out there in France moaning about the unions / rules & legislation / EEC directives / etc, by all means come back here and see how long you can stand it.  See how long you can bear the Nanny State hectoring you about what you can eat/drink/smoke,  self-satisfied politicos hugging hoodies as misundertood souls, corruption and so much else, all this placed alongside England's Green & Pleasant Land disappearing under tarmac and concrete faster than the blink of an eye.   If France is now like England of the 1970's at least that means we will have 30 years before it becomes as dire as this place is now in 2007, nor am I speaking from some hellish inner city ghetto as "this place" is suburban Surrey where you do indeed get hoodies roaming the streets and rampant crime.  Moreover, out there you have to pay for your medical treatment but at least you don't leave hospital with worse diseases that you went in with (point being a neighbour's mother died from MRSA only last week, contracted when she went in for day surgery)   You do not know how fortunate you are mes amies.  

No doubt I have stirred up a hornet's nest with my views but I am totally resolute that we are leaving these shores next year to begin our new life in France.   Has anyone considered that Sarkozy might be just the thing France needs to sort out the unions - he is alleged to base himself along Thatcheresque ideals   Time will tell.

 

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I still think you are being naive about what it is like to live in France. I haven't long been gone from the UK and so it isn't as if I can't remember what life was like. A couple of points - France has introduced a smoking ban before England. Drink-drive laws are much tougher here.

I expect immigrants/refugees do have rose-coloured specs on, but I suppose most of them are doing what you will be doing, and what I have done, which is to move to another country for an improved quality of life. In actual fact, I think I have moved for a different quality of life.

You may feel that England changed greatly after Margaret Thatcher came to power - for better or worse, I'm not sure.

I do think that French towns are quieter and more pleasant in the evening than some English towns. There isn't a "drink until you drop" culture. But there is plenty of crime and violence, and yes, MRSA as well. Why do you think that this doesn't happen elsewhere.?

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Hi All

Everyone has rosy specs on about where ever they are planning to go to, otherwise why would you go?  There are people with rosy specs on going back to the UK after a number of years in France, it works both ways. 

Personally I will be entering my 5th year here very soon, I still love it, no regrets at all not one and I would be seriously interested to know what has 'beaten' Zeb.  Perhaps others can learn from his experience.  Everyone's circumstances are different, it works for some not for others so don't assume that everyone feels the same way by stating 'lets see how Moya feels in 5 years time' perhaps Moya will be like me in 5 years time and happy with her lot.

Panda

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Thankyou Panda.  Indeed I know in my bones that five or fifty years down the line I shall be happy with my lot, whereas here I will never find peace.

Oh and while I think of it, examples of WHY France does not accept rubbish from the EEC.   Banning the sale of "bent" bananas for instance-one loony EEC rule, then there are vegetables in the supermarkets which are not of standard size or colour and HORRORS........... some even have dirt on them, perish the thought.   Quick phone Health and Safety!  The Bar/Tabac near us has fag smoke so thick you can cut it with a blunt knife, yet here licensees will have huge fines landed on them if someone decides that the Smoking Ban does not apply to them and lights up in the pub. (Believe me, we know just such a person who says that this Law does not apply to him as he has been smoking for 60 years and has no intention of giving it up until they nail the lid down on his coffin, which will of course be sooner rather than later).   It ought to be a personal choice yet it isn't.   Now I am not defending smoking because I have never smoked myself yet if someone wants to poison themself with the filthy things then thats their own doing, but the Nanny State is ramming this type of old codswallop through, like hectoring us about salt, or Ask Frank and a plethora of other stuff too numerous to mention.   You are more at risk of getting MRSA sitting in the hospital waiting room than you are of dying from a salt overdose and what is actually being done about getting rid of that, apart from employing a few more Chiefs and getting rid of the Indians?

And what about the huge input of cash Britain pays into the EEC coffers - more than many other countries fork out for the privilege - what exactly do we get from that, apart from giving a jolly good ride on the gravy train for the chosen few?

I am not a trade unionist despite what you may think to the contrary, but I can see that the powerful French union movement wield a hefty punch that hits home when they call an "All out brothers....." which is precisely what they do when the govt. gets carried away with itself or the EEC dreams up something else to inflict on the Community.   The riots were something that had absolutely nothing to do with France itself.  They were the work of the disaffected, students who expected and did not get what they wanted and those keen to undermine society by burning and running amok.   The peaceful French resort to strikes, not arson, moreover its not so long ago that England had Poll Tax riots is it?

I have said my piece and I will not be adding anything further, aside from this: -

We are glad to have the opportunity to make a new start for ourselves in France to pursue our Dream and like everyone else we will give it our best shot.  We intend to join the community at large, blend in then work to make the French Way ours, however my rose coloured specs went into the recycling bin years ago Zeb and Plod and I do not view life as skipping through a flowery mead on a sultry August afternoon with the breeze in my hair.  Sometimes life absolutely stinks as it will when we live in France (for which we have no qualms about whatsoever), yet we will grasp the future even though occasionally it may bear the barbs of a stinging nettle because life is actually a catalogue of trial and error.   Just because things don't work out for YOU,  that certainly does not mean ts going to means disaster for everyone else.     We are all different after all.

End of lecture! 

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[quote user="moya"]

Now I am not defending smoking because I have never smoked myself yet if someone wants to poison themself with the filthy things then thats their own doing, but the Nanny State is ramming this type of old codswallop through, like hectoring us about salt, or Ask Frank and a plethora of other stuff too numerous to mention.   You are more at risk of getting MRSA sitting in the hospital waiting room than you are of dying from a salt overdose and what is actually being done about getting rid of that, apart from employing a few more Chiefs and getting rid of the Indians?

[/quote]

As a chronic asthmatic I for one am absolutely delighted about the smoking ban in enclosed public places, both here in Wales and in France. If people want to smoke themselves to death, that's their privilege (though for their sakes I'd rather they didn't) but I'm very glad they're no longer allowed to damage my weak lungs while they're at it.

As for dietary advice such as lowering salt intake, it seems to me to be pure common sense to give people the information they need to make good choices about their health and lifestyle.  No one is making you personally eat less salt, moya, but if more people avoid high blood pressure and possible strokes by eating less salt, the NHS will have more money to spend on other things. (Incidentally the incidence of MSRA is falling, so something IS being done.)

Sorry - totally off the original topic, but so are moya's "knock-the-UK" diatribes...

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Like Panda, Moya and most other folks on this forum, I love France and our life here.

I was really just pointing out that France isn't so different from the UK if nannying isn't your thing, and inviting moya to comment on French politics and policies in five years time when she's had the time to experience it for herself.

After 5 years in this little corner of France we are in the process of selling up and moving on for a new adventure, hopefully within France, which has always been our intention.

However, due to several hiccups this year which have involved us getting tangled up (quite midly compared to some) with beaurocracy in one form or another, there comes a point when it's easier sometimes to go back to the system you know rather than carry on taking the knockbacks from a system which you don't have a clue about and feel very inadequate in fighting.

It's very sad though to hear such vitriol about Britain and the government. We hear it all the time in bars from people telling us why they've "escaped" from the UK. I think most folks who have moved here in the last 6 years should thank their lucky stars that whatever they think of New Labour, it's been government economic policies which have enabled them to cash in the huge equities on their houses and live the dream. No?

Late Edit:: Moya keeps changing his/her name and is now Framboise, but later will probably be something else.......

Why, Moya?
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[quote user="moya"]

We are glad to have the opportunity to make a new start for ourselves in France to pursue our Dream and like everyone else we will give it our best shot.  [/quote]

But don't forget, Moya, dreams are irrational confabulations which we experience when unconscious and over which we have no control. They are not veridical. But then neither are many of the tabloid stories of life in Britain which seem to influence your thinking.

 

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I don't actually read the tabloids solely and I am quite old enough and wise enough to know what is media sensationalism or what isn't.   My life here has been one huge nightmare at times for which I am going to draw a line under it to begin again in France with my husband in making a fresh start in new surroundings, meeting new people and growing into a different lifestyle, furthermore I am entirely disillusioned with everything here so with the chance to do this, why should we not grasp at it?    

Nor do I need to be reminded that things are going to be tough at times because we have been through the mill enough already here, so we are under no wild illusions that we will cruise through life from now on with no troubles landing on our doorsteps, be we here or in France as it is all part of what is called "Life's Rich Tapestry".   My dreams of our new life are feasible because we both want the what France has to offer, otherwise we would not have bought our semi-derelict farmhouse, renovated it and look forward to a rural life mucking-out the animals on windswept wintry mornings or chopping logs for hours on end.

I will always be English - I make no bones about that because it is my heritage ultimately, but if being English made me anything it is that I am perfectly strong enough to step out into the world and make my home wherever I choose to place it, you know, the pioneering spirit, the stiff upper lip and all the things that made Britain Great in the past. It is also how I have survived through some  painful experiences in my life.   However I won't be running back here whimpering if things don't go precisely to MY plans because being English also gives a sense of empowerment to face adversity head on and I am grateful for that as a product of late 1950s England when life really was hard for my grandparents and parents and not the doddle it is nowadays.    I will also say that people who have made the move to another country (and not just France),  those who faced more than a fair share of troubles yet pressed ahead regardless in building a future for themselves have my deepest admiration for making a success of it.

As for smoking I have never even been tempted by the Evil Weed so I do not understand the need to put the foul things in my mouth and bilge filth everywhere, and furthermore I too dislike coming back from a visit somewhere reeking of stale smoke like an old ashtray so the smoking ban from my point of view is perfectly brilliant.    The same applies to the hectoring advice about salt - my father has health issues due to the stuff and is supposed to be cutting it down so I am aware of this - but nobody force feeds you salt in the pub unlike passive smoking,  do they?  That is something you are meant to do for your own good surely and if you chose to carry on regardless you have no-one to blame but yourself.   (Yes I know the NHS ends up footing the bill for it, but they have also picked up the tab for at least two "boob-jobs" that I know of amongst friends whose vanity meant that after pleading depression over their lack to the GP they were in hospital within 6 months having the ops.   What is the more important of the two?)

Finally, to those who think I am some stupid  * for feeling this way about our illustrious government and their ridiculous nannying of us, be entirely grateful that I chose to not enter politics as I was asked to do few years ago!    Instead I am heading off to France to live my life how I want it, esconced in what is Our rural idyll which may not be everyone's idea of fun,  but nevertheless a place where I shall smile to myself quietly when I see on TV the latest crackpot ideas England's govt. have formulated for you all.  (And yes, we have Sky tv out there already because as yet we are not fluent enough to cope with French tv, despite watching TV5 when we are in London.   We don't intend to not learn the language so in time we will watch more of the French channels as our comprehension grows, even if the programming is every bit as grim as it can be here at times, but in  any case we will probably be far too busy to bother with any sort of tv once the farm is up and running properly.)  

Certainly there will be aspects to the government's working out there that I won't agree with along with many other people, be they ex-pats or natives, but Sarkozy has yet to really start his reign so nobody really knows for sure what he will be like as President.  It is still very much a waiting game as it is here waiting for Mr. Brown to take power finally.

Adieu!  I'm off........................

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Daft of me to ask maybe - but if you are living the French rural idyll why will you be seeing Britich Government on TV?  If you don't like it no need to have British TV you can have French and see their daft things instead.  You too can shout at the tele on Nouvelle Star night and wonder if it is possible for game shows to get any stupider or patronising or watch 3 consecutive episodes of some silly dubbed American series.  You'll probably need to as the bar in village will be full of smoke (I've never yet worked out whether there is anyone inside one of ours in the village as you can't actually see right in).  You too can be as irritated as hell as an ad for your favourite chocolate bar is covered in the 'nanny state' telling you to eat fruit and veg.

Of course I hope that you'll be really happy - I'd wish that for anyone, but I hope that your rural idyll doesn't include the need to have a job or earn any kind of a living here because if it does I'm afraid that disillusionment may well set in quite quickly.  Despite my complaints I, mostly, enjoy my life here and I don't particularly want to move back to the UK but if things don't change it might be what we have to do one of these days unless we fancy a really impoverished retirement.

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Following on from my original posting the subject has gone a bit off track, always interesting to read different points of view but I was hoping to hear of some" Moving Experiences" as in ,I forgot Granny was still in the toilet when we drove away. [I trust that is not a sexist remark ] If anyone else saw the aforementioned TV play with Warren Mitchell  they will know what I mean. I did have one interesting move in the UK where I left to work away on a contract early Monday morning to return  late Friday to a different house!! A chap bought a flat we had ON TUESDAY on condition that he could be in by FRIDAY.  My very capable wife coped with it all with the help of our very helpful solicitor , fortunately she  did phone me and tell me the new address. A little quicker than the usual 3 months for a sale to complete here.

Regards.

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