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Both car keys lost - help....


chessie

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My OH, in early stages of Alzy, is really causing me problems - I'm stressed out here.

For some unknown reason he put BOTH keys to the Citroen on ONE key ring.

He has now LOST that key-ring.   We have NO keys to the Citroen.   It's sitting on the drive, unlocked, but totally useless.

Our second car, my little one, is at the garage; having failed its CT it is 'waiting parts' and won't be available until start of June - so I have no car.

The Citroen at the moment is our only car - and we can't use it.

Here I'm going to write the words we all hate - but I'm going to do it anyway.

'In the UK' (sorry !!) there are mobile locksmiths who will turn up on your driveway, or wherever, if you've locked yourself out of the car or have similar disasters.  Replacement keys can be provided.

Does anyone know if there are similar tradespeople out here ?   What are they called ?

Or does anyone have any advice, or helpful comments, please.   We've spent last 10 days turning the house upside down, and going through every single rubbish bag....   At the moment OH is in the doghouse....and I'm so fed up because, with lockdown, can't even go to a friend's home and cry on her shoulder.

Really finding it difficult out here now.....feel I'm having to take responsibility for everything because he 'doesn't know what to do'.

Word of advice to everyone - try to have an extra set of important keys that can be 'put away' somewhere safe and only needed/used in dire emergency.

Any advice or help would be very much appreciated.

Chessie (in utter despair and on edge of nervous breakdown !!)

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Hadn't expected such quick responses - you're all wonderful.

WB - oh I love you - think the hot wire might be great idea - any chance it could be 'dangerous' to he who drives the car ? !!!

Nomoss - and you're wonderful as well - thank you.   Do you mean you went to the trouble of making a call to check on info - you really did that for me - oh XXX

Pomme - thank you - hadn't thought about insurance aspect; - you is another wonderful person.

I'll 'hang fire' on the contact info you gave, Nomoss;  - I'll contact our insurance people on Monday.

Thinking about using some dowsing rods - maybe the keys fell out of his pocket when he waas walking the 'estate'.  

The grass is long at the moment because our friendly local farmer with a powerful grass cutter hasn't been able to cut grass for last 8 weeks.   We've now got knee high grass with daisies, and clover and other flowers.   I love it - forget mowing the lawn, I'm not bothered.  

OH thinks otherwise, and doesn't understand why our friend hasn't made visit to cut the grass - OH  turned up at his home to ask him to cut the grass once already - during lockdown !!  I'd already explained, several times, what 'lockdown' means - but OH still went to call on farmer. 

OH thinks we should have an English suburban lawn.... and I have always wanted to let it grow and cut just twice a year.   Looks as though I'm getting my wish this year !!!!

Thanks again you lovely people - given me some good ideas.

Night night - Chessie

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We have a friend who has called on folks too during the lockdown. Unlike you though Chessie, their OH thinks everything is tickety boo and it certainly is not.

It looks like you are going to have to be crafty with things in the future and have a box or something along those lines to stash away important things that are spares, or anything else he should not get his hands on anymore.

Good luck with your keys, I hope that the insurance will cover for you.

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Chessie. No problem to call the key man. I have his number stored on the telephone sitting on my desk. As it's a couple of years since I used him, I called to make sure he's still in business.

My insurance company has a 24/7 number for assistance, if yours has one, maybe they can arrange for a serrurier to come, or approve your calling one.

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It sounds as though the keyman recommended by Nomoss is a good first call. Loads of experience with the same problem and probably the cheapest option.

Otherwise a call to a Citroen dealer; I'm fairly sure that for "modern" vehicles (no idea how old yours is) the key details are recorded with the vehicle sale and should be available online. A new key with transponder is expensive, over 100€ I think. You could start with your nearest Citroen dealer. You'll need your carte grise. Good luck.
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My "car key man" has large van which he can overnight in, with the electronic and automatic key cutting machines he needs for almost every vehicle, so he is ready to go, or send one of his partners, anywhere

However, he needs to know the exact details of the car before he leaves, so he knows what security system it uses.

In the case of my 1996 Audi, which I bought with only one key, the coded information for the transponder is not in the ECU, and can only be obtained by "reading" if from a working key.

If I had not had a key, it would have been necessary to replace not only the key, but the electronic system which reads from the transponder chip in the key. This would have cost considerably more than the €100 I paid for two spare keys.

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That was a bargain price, nm.  We lost a Mazda key a few years ago and we were quoted a price of 176 euros.

We sat on the quote for a bit and then, one fine day, whilst walking on the lawn, I found the key half buried.  Washed off a couple of years' accumulation of dirt and it worked as good as new.

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[quote user="mint"]
That was a bargain price, nm.  We lost a Mazda key a few years ago and we were quoted a price of 176 euros.

We sat on the quote for a bit and then, one fine day, whilst walking on the lawn, I found the key half buried.  Washed off a couple of years' accumulation of dirt and it worked as good as new.

[/quote]

My price was for going to his premises to get the new keys made. I forget the price quoted by Audi, but it was considerably higher.

Another problem with my having a fairly old car was that he only had one suitable blank key, so I had to return to get the second one. He couldn't post it, as the key cutting machine works by electronically reading the code on the chip in a spare key, which has to be in the machine. It doesn't work by following the profile of the spare key, and the code cannot be stored.

After cutting the key, the code is copied from the chip in an original key to a new chip, which is placed inside the plastic part of the key.

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nomoss:

Chessie said both keys were lost, so, if needed, there won't be a transponder.

That was why I said "Unfortunately, if the keys are the transponder electronic type it is possible the whole system in the car will need to be reprogrammed or replaced" earlier.

You now seem to be agreeing with me.
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[quote user="pomme"]nomoss:

Chessie said both keys were lost, so, if needed, there won't be a transponder.

That was why I said "Unfortunately, if the keys are the transponder electronic type it is possible the whole system in the car will need to be reprogrammed or replaced" earlier.

You now seem to be agreeing with me.[/quote]

Yes, I do agree with you. Thank you for pointing this out.

If the car has a transponder, and is earlier than about 2000, it is possible that the detection system will need replacing, as well as the keys.

Most cars with transponders after that have the code stored in the ECU, and it can be read from there with the right equipment.

I didn't think of the possibility that the OP was likely to have a car over 20 years old, and in my haste to find the phone number and verify it, I didn't think to mention the problem in case they did.

I should have asked the age of the car, as it can happen that the cost of finding a complete system, even second hand, and installing it, could well be more than the value of the car.

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You've all been remarkably helpful, and your kindness is much appreciated.

Believe me, I really am stressed out about this.   All 'he's' doing at the moment is sitting slumped in front of the tv, expecting me to find the keys, or 'sort out the problem'.

It's a pre-2000 car, both keys 'locked' everything with one press of the button on the key pad.   There's a lot to be said for having a classic car with just mechanical gubbins - all this high-tech electronic stuff is great - then you lose a key !!

It's not the 'right' time either with offices on 'remote' working, and restrictions on visiting.

Feel like just leaving it, let him stew for a bit longer !!

Somehow it's become all my fault anyway (part of the Alzy syndrome).

It's not until an event like this that one begins to realise just how 'crafty' I'll have to become to ensure we don't have a situation like this again.

So it's a case of hunt down car keys, house keys, deed box keys - get copies made of everything - and hide them away securely.

Sadly, I've discovered that he's starting going through my handbag, and my clothes drawers....without asking me.   Which feels a bit 'odd'.

Thanks for great help and advice, and the good wishes - even the 'dowsing' hasn't helped.

This will soon pass - Chessie

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Chessie wrote : Sadly, I've discovered that he's starting going through my handbag, and my clothes drawers....without asking me. Which feels a bit 'odd'.

At a certain stage of Alzheimers this can become more or less the norm, in my experience.

This 'investigative' exploration is not threatening, altho it can seem so .. but it genuinely is more like a child exploring .. as, for such a person every day really is a brand new day, with all the world to discover.

Your personal belongings become just 'stuff' to them, and new stuff at that.

Don't take his actions personally .. altho that can be the most difficult thing to realise.

You will have to copy all keys, all important info, all important docs and hide them in a secure place that he cannot access.

If not at your house then at someone else's who is trustworthy.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Sue - thanks so much for words of advice.   Sadly, it's only until the alzy person does something as stupid as putting both car keys on one ring does one realise that such stupdity can happen - and by then it's too damn late....

Trying to do forward planning is fine - but I get the feeling that one can't cover everything that might happen.   Like this !!!   Hope others who are reading this will take it as a warning !!! - and be prepared.

Too late for us now.

Keys have not been found.   Place has been turned upside down.   Every place where 'possibly' they might be;  and every place where they 'couldn't possibly be there...' -

and we've not found them.

Ericd -all the lovely advice I have been given was very welcome - but I didn't mention, in first post, that this Xantia (which I call 'The Tank') - is over 20 years old, and therefore doesn't have the ECU gubbins - which would have helped - even though it would not have been an inexpensive option.

Not really sure what to do.    Except maybe WB's lovely, first, suggestion of hot-wiring the damn thing.

Can any 'hot wire' be made reasonably safe - and permanent.   The fact that it would mean the doors and boot can't be locked wouldn't be a problem - no-one would want the horrible thing.......in fact I'd be a very happy bunny if it did get stolen !!!!!!!

It's 64 weeks now since keys were 'lost';  I honestly think that they are well and truly lost - though goodness knows where.........

If I had my way I'd get it towed to local scrap yard;  have wanted newer car for last 5 years but 'he' doesn't want newer car.   Friend of mine pointed out that maybe, because of early Alzy, that he might actually  be worried/frightened of driving a more modern, up-to-date, all electric buttons everywhere type of car and this might explain his reluctance to change car.

I think he's just b----y mean........ !!

Oh happy days, happy marriage.........

So no real news I'm afraid; no solution;  just hope some of you take note of possible future problems - and how to avoid them.

And to those who've addressed the Alzy problem - thanks for sympathy, info and support.   I have a horrible feeling I'm going to need more support in the not too distant future.

Thank you everyone; - keep smiling.

Chessie

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Wasn't the key code stamped on the ign barrel years ago. Maybe if you know someone who is handy with a screwdriver they can take the surround off the ignition switch, read the code if its there then pop into the dealer to get one replacement key, when you have that get a local key place to cut a replacement if they are cheaper. Just an idea.

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Should he be driving??

I and all our friends wish that an old friend of ours would stop, none of us believe now their, shall we say 'wandering mind' started, that they should be driving.

Their OH still has their head in the sand about this really and it is not good.

I do feel for you, and hope you get your key situation sorted out.

I think I would simply lie and get rid of his car, complain about new french regs about some older cars etc etc and tell him that they won't insure him for the other one. If he can disappear the keys and commit what is a cardinal sin of going through a ladies bag, then why not. 

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Just a thought, could the keys be locked in the boot . I once did that in the middle of nowhere in the lake district. Luckily I hadnt locked the doors of the car and I managed to get into the boot from the inside of the car and recover the keys. Its an easy mistake to make, open the boot put the keys down lift out what I wanted and close the boot . Keys inside.
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Yes, Pip, I did exactly that once.  I was in a supermarket car park and looked around and found a kindly French couple to drive me home (I was on their way) to get the spares.

It was in the early days when we were still waiting for France Télécom (as it was then called) to erect a poteau so that we could have a phone line.

Chessie, it's worth a look and also, whilst you're at it, in the door pockets as well.  Or, have you done all that already?

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Chessie, have you contacted the car key specialist contact given by Nomoss ? A long drive away and likely a hefty bill but you are assured of success.

Also just spoke to a friendly locksmith in Villeneuve-sur-Lot (Google search in french "Serrurier voiture department 47". His name Philippe AMADIEU). He recommends that you contact Citroen who will be able to help as long as you have the car's Carte Grise. If the car is UK registered, you will need to call a Citroen garage in the UK quoting the details of your V5c document.
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