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Rose
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Dear all - I am planning to take the plunge and start my own business.  I am holding off from actually trading until January 2009 to take advantage of the new tax regime... if it turns out it is the right scheme for me?! [8-)]

My question is ... I want to buy some things for the business and I'm not sure if I can claim back these set-up costs against the business if I buy now but don't trade until January.  If I can great, if I can't I'll hold-off until the new year... but I prefer the first option!

I do have a meeting scheduled with an accountant in a few weeks but I would like to buy something now so just wondering if anyone else has an answer? [:)]

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Had a bit of a eureka moment in the car this afternoon... the new auto-entrepreneur rate is a flat rate... you pay a flat 23% (?) regardless I guess of any costs... so I'm guessing it makes no difference if I buy now or later... so I think I'm tempted to buy now! [Www]

Still interested to hear anyone else's comments though [:D]

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Hi Rose,

You are right - with the autoentrepreneur scheme, as with the micro scheme, you can't claim back any real costs.

However, should you ever be subject to a fiscal control (which can happen at any point and might be unlikely but you never know) then you still need to be able to supply all relevant and correct invoices, receipts etc.

It's OK to buy materials intended for your new business before your new business is actually declared but not too long before.  Make it a MAXIMUM of 3 months and you should be OK.

Best of luck.

Lisa

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Lisa you are speaking from a UK and more particularly VAT perspective.

Not particularly relevant to France and especially a new regime that has yet to be ratified.

I am still convinced that the AE scheme will only be for those already paying taxes and cotisations via existing employment or (French) retirement.

I will be very happy to be proved wrong but am not holding my breath.

To the OP: you have nothing to lose by waiting until 2009.

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[quote user="J.Rs gone native"]

I am still convinced that the AE scheme will only be for those already paying taxes and cotisations via existing employment or (French) retirement.

I will be very happy to be proved wrong but am not holding my breath.

[/quote]

JR, We've gone through this before. None of the texts I've read say anything about restricting the autoentrepreneur statut as you suggest. The law itself is not easy reading but what I can make of the section about the new statut it only refers to the same limitations as the existing Micro BNC and Micro BIC regimes.

All the commentaries and ministerial presentations are pretty explicit in saying that anybody who does not already have a registered business can start up under the autoentrepreneur statut.

Look at this for example:

http://www.modernisationeconomie.fr/mesures/lme_ex01.html

1 - Créer un statut d'auto-entrepreneur pour les Français qui souhaitent se mettre « à leur compte »

Désormais tous ceux qui le souhaitent, étudiants, chômeurs ['the unemployed'] , salariés, retraités. peuvent créer très simplement leur propre activité et devenir auto-entrepreneur. Ce statut simplifie les démarches de création, de gestion et de cessation d'une activité. Les risques pour l'entrepreneur individuel sont réduits.)

« Un tiers des Français et deux tiers des jeunes se disent prêts à créer un jour leur propre entreprise. 140 000 entreprises ont été créées depuis le début de l'année, soit 10 % de plus que l'année dernière sur la même période. Un statut simple, fiscalement avantageux peut fournir le [.] tremplin à tous ceux qui veulent entreprendre [.] »
Christine LAGARDE, Ministre de l'Économie, de l'Industrie et de l'Emploi

Ce que dit la loi

Qui peut devenir auto-entrepreneur

Tout le monde : étudiant, salarié, profession libérale, retraité, demandeur d’emploi, entrepreneur…

Enregistrement de l’auto-entreprise

Afin d’officialiser son activité de commerce ou de services, il suffit de faire une simple déclaration (papier ou Internet). L’auto-entrepreneur est dispensé d’immatriculation au registre du commerce et des sociétés ou au répertoire des métiers, il lui suffit de se déclarer auprès du centre de formalités des entreprises.

 

Or how about this?

http://www.lesechos.fr/info/analyses/4747713.htm

L'autoentrepreneur est une personne désirant mener une activité professionnelle indépendante, à revenus limités (80.000 euros pour une activité commerciale, 32.000 euros pour une activité de services), à titre principal ou parallèlement à son statut de salarié ou de retraité. Ce nouveau régime encourage aussi bien l'étudiant, le chômeur, l'artisan ou le commerçant à se lancer. Il permet d'exercer son activité sur simple déclaration, fait payer des charges uniquement en fonction du chiffre d'affaires qu'il réalise (13 % du chiffre d'affaires pour une activité commerciale, 23 % pour une activité de services) et protège l'ensemble de son patrimoine immobilier. Enfin, il permet de cotiser pour sa couverture sociale et sa retraite.

 

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JR,

I am speaking specifically from a French perspective and not particularly with regard to VAT.

Even micros (and it will certainly apply to AEs as well) still have to keep a record of all their invoices, receipts etc.  Should a fiscal control ever come about then you still have to prove that your purchases are for the business and the longer the gap between the purchase and the official creation of the business, the more difficult this is to prove and the less likely they are to believe you.

I do agree that the new AE scheme is definitely going to work best for retirees, students, people with existing salaries etc but even though as you rightly say it still has to be ratified, it will categorically still be a viable option for everybody else too.

Lisa

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New auto-entrepreneur scheme

The more I read about this, the more I am impressed by its breadth of application. A number of references of particular interest include the website www.montermonentreprise.com which gives an example of a photographer earning about 2000 euros a month. On this he would pay 23% combined tax and social security (345 euros) leaving him with 1 155 euros in his pocket (after paying suppliers etc) - considerably more than the average French person earns.

Another site 'transversel' mentions those registering receiving a SIRET number in the normal way - there seems to be have been a question mark over this in earlier notices. I have also seen mentioned that having a SIRET number is essential if you wish to register a 'declaration d'insaissabilité' to protect your private assets from seizure - as recommened in the Government's own auto-entrepreneur kit. The site 'CreaStart' also refers to this.

Part of the Government's auto-entrepreneur kit includes specimen invoices - in which a sample SIREN number is featured.......

The 'transversel' site suggests that a special 'micro-assurance' offering professional indemnity cover should shortly be available for 220 - 350 euros a year.

Also the fact that 'taxe professionnelle' is referred to in official publications (in the context of its not being levied for the first two years after registration) seems again to reinforce that working under the new auto-entrepreneur regime will be regarded as a 'proper business' and not just some part time activity as some people have implied.

It seems that there is quite a lot of fine-tuning and interpretation going on, as the new regime evolves over the coming months and keeping abreast of new developments will be an interesting exercise. I will continue to add my two'pennyworth to the Forum as and when.

P-D de Rouffignac www.francemediterraneanproperty.com

 

 

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P-D, please keep the info coming.  I am reading everything with great interest though not so much the "official" sites as yet.

When people like you post, I can glean most of what you say and then the official stuff becomes more comprehensible to me.  Alas, my knowlege of French does not, so far, extend to being readily able to read things that contain a lot of information or can have different interpretations.

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on reading the kit today and other information it appears to say that a micro irrespective of registration date will be able to opt to pay costisations under the new scheme providing they opt to do so by dec 31st of the preceeding year, another forum says only micros reg in 2008 will have this option..can anyone confirm

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Hi albert, the information appears to be from http:www.auto-entrepreneur.fr, I used the google page translator to read the site and the French forum where even our french friends seem to be confused by the whole thing, the published kit2008 is also available to be viewed from the site, the modernization of the ecomomy seems to state that there will be changes to existing micro enterprises.

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The information published when the autoentrepreneur status was first announced (under that name) certainly suggested that it applied to start-up businesses. However, the rules are constantly evolving and there is no reason, in theory, why any small business should not be able to opt for this status.

The operating difference between micro and autoentrepreneur is basically how cotisations/taxes are calculated - all indications are that the charges will be pretty much equal, whichever you go for (some people may be marginally better off with one, some with the other). The major benefit of the autoentrepreneur scheme is that the actual paperwork and procedures at start-up are much simpler for autoentrepreneur than for micro, so for an established micro entreprise there would not seem to be anything to gain by changing. It could possibly be beneficial to change in the first year or so of trading, as charges are automatically based on turnover with autoentrepreneur, whereas with other start-ups a notional turnover figure is used, unless you request otherwise.

It's also doubtful that autoentrepreneur will suit the sort of business that needs to have a Siret number.

However, it promises to be a great scheme and would certainly suit me if I needed to start another enterprise in France.

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