cooperlola Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 [quote user="Sprogster"]what are the financial implications, which can be complicated if your husband continues to work and be resident in the UK. For example, your husband is obliged to continue to pay UK National Insurance if he works in the UK, so do you have to pay the equivalent French charges as well and what exactly would be your situation with regards to French health care under the new rules in this situation? [/quote]The dependent families, living in the EU, of a UK resident, are entitled to health cover via an E109. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcat Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Agree renting is the best way to go, but only plan to do it for as long as it takes us to find a suitable property. We will still have a property in the UK to come back to if things dont work out (I would be inclined to give it 18 months to 2 years based on my friends experiences who have moved away).We are selling one property in the UK to finance our french home. We have another property that is being rented out in the UK. If we buy in France and decide to return then we will still have a nice holiday home in France and a home in the UK We are looking into the financial implications, which I guess we wont be fully up to date on until we are there and have established our residency. There are a couple of ladies that have kindly e-mailed me, their husbands work in the UK and they are offering advice for which I will be very grateful for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citygirl Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 What does your husband do for a living Sara? Is it something that will make it easy for him to find work in France eventually?I too don't think that 1500 euros a month would be enough. Even 2000 would be a push unless you don't intend doing anything much outside the home and never want to travel anywhere other than around your immediate area. Isn't the Dordogne one of the more expensive areas to look for a house? Why not try it for a year, but just renting somewhere and not giving up you house in the UK. Once you have sold that and have that extra money (which you are probably telling yourselves you won't touch, but in all honesty you probably will), then it would be harder for you to return to the UK to live. You can have a great lifestyle in France but try factoring in that it might cost you the same as you currently spend in the UK and even a little more in time with the cost of living rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcat Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Hi citygirlI see that 2000 euros a month is a more realistic figure, thanks. My husband is a senior construction engineer, his average UK wage (for his senior skills) is £40k - £45k. He is looking into acquiring inspector status which would pay more but would take him to other countries aside from the UK, which is his dream.Me, my mum and the kids just want a nice base where we can enjoy a quiet life, keep a few chickens, plant some veg, make some wine, the kids are really looking forward to it, maybe a B & B in years to come or a nice small family business. Ive been brought up in an italian family where this was the norm. My mother in law has also decided to come out and buy herself an apartment. Our uncle is also looking into buying a holiday home nearby as he has just sold a property in Italy and has 2 UK homes.We have a uk property that we will make £1000 per month in rental profit, which will help towards our income. If we needed to return to the uk then we would live there, its quite big and has loads of potential to extend. We will definitely sell our current home as we want to use the equity to buy our french home, along with the investment my mum is making. She is able to support herself very well. Although we do plan to rent for as long as it takes to find suitable properties, we may want an outbuilding for mum to convert. To find an apartment nearby for my husbands mum too, all this could take a year easily, so hopefully we will have a good idea of french life by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Hi Sara, have read your thread with great interest and am glad to see you stuck with the forum - I totally sympathise, I too got a little prickly when I felt my simple question on another thread (about schools) led to some fairly judgemental comments. However I think you have generated some really interesting responses and a really interesting thread of discussion. I'm afraid I have nothing of value to add - I'm interested purely from the point of view that we intend to make the move as well so to establish an average cost of living is something of great interest to us. It sounds to me like you have your head totally screwed on - you have a plan and you are being 100% wise retaining one property in the UK. We have a house which we plan to sell, however we have no mortgage on it so we hope to use the equity to buy a place outright in France eventually and to buy a place in UK to rent (probably with a small mortgage - depends on how much the French budget is stretched). However we have decided to rent for a year first - purely to give us time to see if we really like the lifestyle and to have time to thoroughly research areas and schools. So we may well just rent our home in England first - as long as rental income covers rental outgoings (and hoepfully some more - am looking at renting a 3 bed place with a pool for a year for £550 a month - our house in UK should generate £1000 income). The increasing Euro is a concern and is another factor in waiting to buy - while the exchange rate may add another £50 a month to rent it could add £50,000 to a purchase price! We did buy a load of Euros when it hit 1.5 to the pound - sadly though they are running out as we use these for holidays. I am the one who may have to occasionally commute to UK to work as I am an IT contractor - we also have the same idea, hopefully a 3 month contract here plus what my partner could earn, will keep us - it may work, it may not - we can but try.........the main thing is that give our kids (mine will be 6 and 4) a far better quality of life than I think they can. My partner is in the building trade and has been for 30 years but nowadays in the UK earns less than he did 10, even 20 years ago, and is finding work harder and harder to come by due to the increase in immigration and cheap foreign labour. He is very good at what he does and is very practical so hopes to do some property development.Anyway good luck to you - these forums are great but they can be equally helpfull and confusing. At the end of the day you have to just go for it and as long as you are sensible - which you clearly are - if it doesn't work out then you haven't burned your bridges and you can always say you have tried itAll the best, Fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzy h Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Sara have you ever thought of the limousin area to live more cheaper than the dordogne and there is still a big expat community, some figures are, in our area Magnac laval, in our Shereens class there are 5 out of 15 brit childen and my sons college class 8 out 19 are brits there are 97 families in this commune out of 2000 citizens, so you can get help and advise but not see them if you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcat Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Thanks, the limousin area, I have come across some lovely cheap properties on recent searches and am now very interested in visiting that area too. Thanks for your reply. When there are up to 8 of us all looking to relocate then pin pointing an area that we can all focus on is going to be very interesting! We have set a target for ourselves of 18 months but dont mind if things stretch out a bit in order to give us time to make the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 In the Uk we have large mortgage (over £1,000 a month). by selling up and moving to France we will mortgage free with our equity so wont need that extra £1k a month.Sara, I've not read through all the comments given here, but had a quick look at yours. Please do not fall into the trap by trying to resolve your UK problems a move to France is the solution. It might temporarily solve the UK ones, but you will uncover a whole set of new ones here in France. Where is your love of everything French it does not appear to be mentioned. The language constraints, cultural differences, all these appreciations are questions that need to be asked to. I have friends in France who have made their lives successful, but it has been very difficult, one in particular husband has to work 5 weeks on/off - their marriage is suffering. Others still have other problems too personal to mention here. All those things you are saying that you are unhappy with in the UK can be addressed in the UK - why not downsize? Re-locate to a less expensive area? A move to France may appear to be a short term fix, but that is what it can be.I only say these things because i've seen far too many families or other folk try and do what you are doing only to discover that life in France has its own set of problems. What will your 17 year old do for a job. I sat on the plane 4 days ago next to a young french girl who now lives in London, she tried in vain for a year to get a job and found nothing. She moved to London and got a jobwithin a week. 3 years later she is a manager in the creche she works in. She says she was surprised at how many opportunities there are in the UK where there is a limited amount in France. Her brother now lives in London too. I asked 'will you move back' - 'yes probably ' she replied 'but when I want to retire!' The other thing she volunteered was that she plans to do some further education in a couple of years - something she could not do in France - she really appreciated this opportunity.You would be wise to rent first and keep your options open. I am trying to give you a balanced view here and not be negative but realistic. Deby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Fi sent you a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I've just caught up with this thread. Sara, we (family of 4) moved to France three years ago with the same idea as you, that my husband would be able to cut down drastically on his work but sadly it hasn't worked out that way at all. Last year he only managed 12 weeks in France. The rest of the time he was working his backside off in the UK. We had children in private schools so we thought that without those to pay, we'd be laughing. Personally I've found France to be more expensive than the UK in many areas. We couldn't live on 1500GPB in a million years and bearing in mind we rarely go out as he's never here, I've been amazed at how quickly our money goes. Our monthly bills for heating/electricity/wood, health insurance, telephone, broadband connection, taxe d'habitabtion, taxe fonciere, social fund, car insurance, house insurance, school meals, school bus, school insurance, extra curricular activities for the children comes to over 1000 euros just for the basics. That doesn't include food shopping which I think is more expensive in France compared to my visit to Tescos a couple of weeks ago, petrol which is now more expensive than the UK, miscellaneous weekly expenses, etc. Whatever you think it's going to cost you, add on another 30% or so and you'll be nearer the mark.We have been hit hard by the exchange rate which has wiped about 17-20% off our income which is all UK derived, which means that this week my husband will probably have to work all year. He works in the film industry and is well paid but despite all our research I think we really underestimated how much things would cost. On top of that as someone has already said, it can be very lonely being in a foreign country on your own and hard going through all the traumas of starting school and starting a new life without the support of your husband who may be working in the UK. We budgeted for my husband to take 3 months of work during our move to help us all settle in. The money ran out in about 5 weeks and he had to go back to work. Like you I've been used to being on my own a lot when husband was away on location but it's another think entirely in a different country.I have some great friends here but sometimes you get sick of going everywhere on your own, no babysitters (although it looks like you may be bringing yours with you!) and I can assure you that it's no fun splitting logs in a freezing barn all winter, having to deal with all the problems that arise either at home or at school on your own if it happens at a time when your husband isn't there to help out. I find it pretty exhausting. On top of that I don't think we've ever been so hard up. Our lovely 200 year old farmhouse which we bought already renovated is a complete money pit and swallows our money as fast as we can earn it. I speak fluent French but can't find a decent job - or any job in fact!We are now planning to move back to the UK and I can't wait. I wouldn't discount returning when we are older but many people told me before we moved that France is for retired people, not for people with families or who need to work and sadly I think they were right.Good luck though - just because it didn't work for us doesn't mean it won't for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I think that Deby and Ginger's comments echo exactly the sorts of experiences I have witnessed, and try to warn people about.Please don't come to France to solve other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I would just like to say that I agree with everything Ginger said - short of the comparison costs to the UK as I didn't come here from the UK, so cannot make that comparison.I would never have dreamed the costs to live here would be so high. I could lay out all the figures for what we pay, but each person's life and costs will vary based on the home they choose to live in and the lifestyle they lead (and of course the number of people in the household), so I don't really see the value in it. Continue to do your homework Sara. It is good you are doing it now, before you arrive.There is no way we could live on 1500 euros per month (even without a mortgage). And we are only a family of 3 people. The cost of heating our home in winter (we use fioul oil) is between 1500 to 2000 euros and that is going to rise substantially. There are so many other costs that come into play. School canteen, bus fees, etc. add up very quickly, especially if you have more than one child to pay for. These will vary from department to department. So will tax fonciere and tax habitation. Ours are very high.We are lucky in that the value of our property has risen dramatically since we bought it. We will most likely sell it in a couple of years and leave - ALL due to the cost of living and beauracratic unpleasantness here.Sorry to sound negative. It isn't all negative. I love many things about France, but no place is perfect (not that anyone said it was) and it is very wise of you to get as much data beforehand as possible.Best of luck to you Sara. I know it isn't an easy decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimless Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Before you do anything rash look at how many brits are selling up in France to move back to the UK. Many Brits hate it in France. I recommend that before you make a big commitment you sepnd 6 months living amoungst these people... You may love it and you may lothe it. Be very careful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 An example of the cost of living going up here.On Monday I bought a box of the Super U Bien Vu eggs for 89centimes. Yesterday evening I bought another box from the same shop at €1,25,an increase of 36centimes in five days probably because carburants are still rising daily for delivery costs. Not much in the scheme of things as important as buying a house here,but neverthe less only one item out of thousands are rising weekly whereas wages and pensions etc are not. Ginger has shown guts in admitting she found it hard here,many many people still wear rose tinted specs and refuse to accept all the changes going on here. We are paying (actually we have refused and have demanded a lower figure) well over the equivalent of £1000 per month here in health,pension and social security as self employed and so are many thousands of other artisans.This should also be taken into account for anyone wishing to come here and set up inbusiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I would echo the comments of fuel costs. We are in France for only a few months of the year but our oil bills are scary - far higher than our UK oil bills for a similar sized house. Our neighbour (who lives in a tiny one bedroom village house) was telling me her annual electric bill has doubled in the last year - from 550 euros to nearly 1100 - and they use a woodburning stove for all their heating. French wine maybe cheap - but not much else is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="Ginger"]I speak fluent French but can't find a decent job - or any job in fact![/quote]I've heard the same thing over and over again - from locals born and raised in France[quote user="Ginger"].....many people told me before we moved that France is for retired people, not for people with families or who need to work and sadly I think they were right.[/quote]That is exactly our view! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="Scooby"]Our neighbour (who lives in a tiny one bedroom village house) was telling me her annual electric bill has doubled in the last year - from 550 euros to nearly 1100 - and they use a woodburning stove for all their heating. [/quote]Crikey what is she doing to use so much electricity? We have a 3 bedroom house and are all electric except for a gas hob so :- electric heaters, washer, dryer, chauffe-eau etc so no wood-burning stove, no cheminee and our bill for the last 12 months was 1289 euros; the year before it was less than 1100 euros as it was a milder winter.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Ginger wrote:I speak fluent French but can't find a decent job - or any job in fact!I've heard the same thing over and over again - from locals born and raised in France Ginger wrote:.....many people told me before we moved that France is for retired people, not for people with families or who need to work and sadly I think they were right.That is exactly our view!I agree with all that 100%Our electric bill is never less than 150 for two months. Normally runs about 190 for two months. Sometimes a bit higher. Summer months are the lowest with long daylight hours and lots of outdoor barbecues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="spg"] our bill for the last 12 months was 1289 euros; the year before it was less than 1100 euros as it was a milder winter.Sue[/quote]Not sure what your winter temperature was the year before last but ours dropped (for several weeks) to minus 10 deg and less! I notice you are in Morbihan - which I think has much milder winters than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 ^We are on the gulf stream in Finistère north of the Morbihan region and which rarely gets below 0°C so our heating bills are very low compared to regions further south you would think are warmer. I don't even own a winter coat as a kagoul is sufficient to keep out the wind and rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="Val_2"]An example of the cost of living going up here.On Monday I bought a box of the Super U Bien Vu eggs for 89centimes. Yesterday evening I bought another box from the same shop at €1,25,an increase of 36centimes in five days probably because carburants are still rising daily for delivery costs. .[/quote]You would be lucky to buy eggs inthe UK for €1.25 - more like £1.50 plus. Costs are also rising in the UK, (for those now living only in France). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Not if you compare apples with apples (or in this case, eggs with eggs).....Super U Bien Vu would, I assume, compare with, say, Tesco's Value range. Today, you would indeed pay £1.50 for a box of the latter, however, it contains 15 eggs. They're on special offer. A box of 6 is 88p.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Except sometimes, comparing like with like is no simple matter. Madame, my nighbour, gets me eggs from some farm. They come in all sizes and are usually also covered in chicken pooh. I pay her 4 euros for 2 dozen. I'm not sure whether they are good value or not. To me, it's lovely to have madame bring my eggs and we compare cake recipes and generally have a bit of a moan about the cost of food or the weather. Then we laugh and say cheerio to each other. I get a chance to listen to French as she is spoke and to practise my halting version of it. I'd say all that is excellent value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Not if you compare apples with apples (or in this case, eggs with eggs).....Super U Bien Vu would, I assume, compare with, say, Tesco's Value range. Today, you would indeed pay £1.50 for a box of the latter, however, it contains 15 eggs. They're on special offer. A box of 6 is 88p.[:)][/quote]All I can say is that I buy the cheapest I can find in the supermarket I use (which is not Tesco) and the cheapest ones which were about a pound are no longer stocked, and the next price level up is £1.50 for 6. Agree, it does depend on where you shop, but the point I wanted to make was that it is not just in France where prices are going up, so if you cannot afford to live in France, can you afford to live in the UK either?? Oh, and by the way, jobs are getting harder to find here also, I've been out of work for 6 months, and I'm a highly skilled and experienced professional with many years work experience to bring to the workplace. So no guarantee of a job in the UK either if you return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 [quote user="Scooby"]I notice you are in Morbihan - which I think has much milder winters than we do. [/quote]I don't know where your holiday home is so that makes it difficult to comment on your winter temperatures. Perhaps if you were to add your location to your profile it might help us sympathise re the size of your EDF bills.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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