chessie

Norman - '....better tempered discussion....' - OK, possibly.Maybe most of us have now lived in France for quite a while, so all the 'help and advice' questions when one first moves to France have been answered, and coped with, and we've all adapted. Or maybe we're all that bit older, and not quite so quick to argue. But, of course, if we want to keep this forum going then there's nothing like throwing out a contentious topic which can get a bit heated.Anyone want to start ? !! Seriously, I'd be very sad if we didn't keep this forum going - I've found it very helpful at times, especially when I've been feeling really stressed and just need to 'chat' to someone.  Facebook - what's that, can't be bothered, not the same. Chessie

Idun - just come across your post - don't like the sound of 'not so good things...' Whatever they are I hope they are resolved in a good way fairly soon. I just want to say 'thank you' for the help and advice you gave me earlier this year - it was a very kind gesture on your part, and I appreciated your helping hand. Please don't 'log out' for too long. A bientot - Chessie

I had some sort of problem with my Windows Live Mail and Firefox - won't go into details but suddenly developed horrendous problems.Wasn't sorted by taking PC back to previous 'restore' point.So I downloaded a new e-mail software - eM.   Chose this because it would retain all previous e-mails receieved and sent on Windows Live Mail prior to installing new software.Fine; download nor probs.Then trying to use eM - found I could not download from Orange web-mail nor could I send.   Aaaarrrgggh.Took 3 days for me to realise that at same time I down-loaded eM somehow, or another, and I don't remember it - I had down-loaded a new browser.  Already use Avast as virus/security set-up.Removed the Avast browser - yippeee - everything works.  Except that for some sites, only some, I now have to log-in, rather than be automatically recognised.   Fine - coping with that (this site included). Have also downloaded up-dated version of Firefox.   Should be all systems 'go'....Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Have tried to use my PayPal a/c to send £££s from my UK bank a/c to my daughter's UK PayPal a/c.And I can't....The PayPal system says 'no''/ I keep being informed that PayPal cannot confirm who I am .Tray to log-in (has to be on french pages) - and again 'doesn't recognise my computer'. Oh I am so, so fed up. Nothing is going right at the moment.   everything I touch just seems to break-down, go wrong...won't work - can I rewind my life back 5 years and re-start everything ? !!!!!!! Has anyone had problems in last few days with PayPal ?Anyone got any clue what the problem could be ? And why is that when you download a programme it doesn't take too long - but when you try to instal it - seems to take forever.   Fed up, cold, wet, miserable, no friends, no social life, flakey PC, no money, finished all the wine, drank last of the brandy 2 weeks ago............and no cat to sit on lap either. Thanks to Phoenix do have enough books to see me through until Christmas - but have now run out of chocolate.Oh and the logs are all wet so we've got the electric fire on.........!! Cheer me up, peoples -Chessie

OK - but I did open a UK bank a/c whilst being resident in France.   Don't really seem to remember having too much trouble, although admitedly was with same bank as our joint a/c - just needed to have one solely for uk rental to keep the £££s separate and clear for tax people. I think the advice to anyone leaving the UK to live in France was to keep open as many bank and savings accounts as possible (within reason). I certainly don't expect the banks to act as a social service, but sometimes, just sometimes, a bit of consideration for long term customers from a moral point of view is in order .  After all, the banks caused the 2008 crash - and guess who bailed them out - the very same customers they are going to leave in the lurch. Can't someone set up a 'people's bank'........ !!! Chessie

OK - I'll admit it - I'm stupid. But this is what I don't understand - 'Unless the UK and EU strike a comprehensive trade deal covering financial services, banks will have to secure licences to operate in each individual country and follow separate rules in each jurisdiction.' '...follow separate rules....' - I had thought that all banks throughout the eu had to follow the same rules - wasn't that what the eu was supposed to be about - the 'level playing-field' and all ? What costs do the UK banks incur in dealing with UK ex-pats living in Canada, NZ, Oz - or anywhere outside the UK?   There must be large numbers of UK former residents, now living world-wide, who still have financial ties to the UK - how do they cope with UK pensions, UK rental income etc etc. ? Isn't it strange how the numbers of UK ex-pats living in the eu tends to fluctuate greatly depending on whichever story is being written. At one time we heard about 2 million UK ex-pats in the eu; the DWP refers to 160,000 permanent eu residents - now it seems there's hardly enough of us to make the wretched big banks bother with the few of us out here !! I work on the principle/wishful thinking 'Something will turn up....' !! And if the french finance bods think there's a chance the UK citizens won't have any access to money to pay the french tax bills - you can bet something will happen to sort this out ! Chessie

quote - 'Am I alone in being very angry with the Chinese government?' No, you're definitely not alone, not at all.   I'm trying to avoid any chinese 'stuff' where possible if I need now to buy anything new - but it's difficult.But definitely hate chinese gvt;  and dislike chinese people for their love of eating anything with or without legs, and using the sick wet markets.    Now they're destroying the marine life round the Galapagos.   But that's another topic.Chessie

BinB - interesting post - and yes I am well aware of all the comments/points you are making. It just seemed to me that the UK has agreed to allow all eu banks open access to the UK - but that there was no reciprocal action from the eu.  And we all know banks just want our money = in fact they don't mind russian mafia, the oligarchs, and the drug dealers money so the banks have no morals, no standards, no nothing as far as I'm concerned. Sadly they are a necessary evil - and with all this talk of a 'cashless' society they're laughing all the way to their own little tax haven banks.

...'The arrangement, known as “passporting”, expires at the end of the year and, while the UK has legislated so that EU banks can continue to provide services for customers in Britain, the EU has not done the same. ' Well, well, well;  so the UK has agreed to be helpful - but the eu 'says non'.... !!!

Been incredible number of strikes; then Marseille and Toloun - and it's showing no sign of abating. Looking at satellite images that is one heck of a thunder storm system - quite impressive to watch - but must be keeping a lot of people awake tonight. Sadly there'll probably be reports of fallen trees, houses struck etc - let's hope the damage isn't too severe, and no-one's been injured. Chessie

Isn't it lovely when someone on this forum reaches out to ask about others from time to time. I've been watching a website which shows lightning strikes in real time - and oh boy, oh boy - Montpellier has been taking the brunt of a terrific thunderstorm tonight. Switch off everything and hunker down would be my actions !! Chessie

Living in Lot-et-Garonne we're on the north-south flight path of those beautiful cranes. This evening, half-an-hour ago, I was sitting by the wide open window enjoying a cooling through draught, and reading, with a glass of wine as you do. We live in a rural area, there's not much noise at night, and I've been listening to the owls for the last few weeks. Then this evening, last half-hour, I am positive I heard the beautiful chorus of cranes flying above;  not directly above, but from a bit of a distance. There's no other noise; no neighbours; no cars..... But surely the middle of August is a bit early for them to be returning south ? What do they know that we don't ? Maybe I imagined it - anyone else heard their night flights this time of year ? Maybe I should stop the wine drinking !! Chessie

Interesting points made on here. Look at how the UK estate agents are now reporting huge upsurge in number of people who now want to move out of London and the big cities - to somewhere they can 'breath'. Spend most of one's working life living in a suburban 3 bed semi crammed with neighbours on both sides, over the road, no privacy or peace and quiet in the back garden then it is perfectly understandable, after 40 odd years of living in a small house, with small space, little back garden and noisy neighbours - to have a dream of living in a detached place, with no noisy neighbours.   I'm speaking here from personal experience.  I knew what it was living cheek by jowl with neighbours, front, back and everywhere.   Depends on the neighbours, but oh boy - no matter how 'good' a neighbourhood is - there's always noisy families; they can't help it, children make noise, then they become teenagers !! At the end of the day everyone's different;  we make different choices at different times of our lives.   Some people will be lucky in the UK with their neighbours and their houses;  some people have a dream. Once they've realised the dream, moved to the large house needing renovation in deepest rural France - and when reality hits - then it's a question of character, and outlook.   An optimist would say 'OK, this is what we dreamed, we're here, never expected perfection but we'll enjoy it until such time.........' A pessimist would say 'OK, this was my dream, I don't like it, it wasn't what I wanted, I'm miserable, can we move......' !!!! For those of us who love the sunshine, need the sunshine then living in France is perfect.   Wanting to have a few years of just peace and quiet and to listen to the birds ...France is perfect. But needing sunshine the way I do, then beautiful, wonderful Wales just doesn't do it for me.  Most of the UK would cause me to suffer the 'black dog'.   It would have to be the south coast, Devon or Cornwall or the Isle of Wight.  All of which are rather expensive.   And a retirement complex - oh no thank you very much - the annual costs are very high and we couldn't afford. As one becomes older then the thought of not having to bother with the wood burning stove, the need to drive everywhere, the difficulties of night driving, the remoteness will inevitably start to cause problems.   At that point, different stage of our lives, then we will re-assess and decide.  Stay in France in a town house in large town or small house on outskirts of bigger city.   Or even return to UK.  Who knows - but it'll be another part of our journey and adventure through life. We're all different; different life chances, different backgrounds - it's what makes the world go round... !!! Chessie (still waiting for a wine glass icon on here - mods ? !!)

Your perspective on how life is in the UK at the moment is interesting - and sad.  Nope - not full of bile at all.   It was only a very robust riposte to someone who had made extremely offensive comments about the uk's PM... that's all. All I did was make similar rude comments about other eu leaders; shouldn't have descended to that poster's level, but just pointing out it works both ways....!! I recognise there's good, and bad, in France; same as UK - all governments have made a hash of dealing with this chinese virus - because none of them really knew what they were dealing with, how to cope with it - and how to do the best for their own people. I thought BJ's response - the hand-clapping for the NHS - considering how ill he was, and his subsequent recovery was 'putting his arms round the people' - what would you have him do ? His government has effectively given workers 6 months paid holiday - wasn't that right ? There's no bile here, no vitriol - just strong comments from someone who is fed up of the constant drip, drip, drip of criticisms from people who, with hindsight and no power - know, or think, they could have done better. No government knew, and no government got it right, and no government was perfect. But then life isn't perfect....... Chessie (who does still enjoy her life in France, despite other probs)

As always it's the poor that will pay the most - the rich remain rich because they can pay the ones that have made the rules who also know how to get round the rules. It's us at the bottom that will hurt the most. As for differences between UK and France - I think a lot would depend on where one lives in France - and where one lives in the UK. South of France, warmer climate, lower heating bills - would have to be compared with south coast of UK. Much further north in France, cold winters - heating bills comparable to north of England or southern Scotland perhaps - or even lovely, wet Wales. Here in France live in a rural area you need two cars - so there's double the cost of insurance and CT.  Live in a large village or town in the UK and there's taxis, buses, trains - no need to even own a car..... We, as pensioners are feeling the pinch a bit;  I've kept some supermarket receipts from 12 years ago - and food bill has definitely increased quite a bit, even though it's for more or less the same items every large supermarket shop. Cost of electricity - ouch. Cost of car insurance - double ouch. Tax d' hab - less than UK council tax (for comparable size house) Tax - I think France wins on this, a bit, at least for our circumstances - but you would have to really do a spread-sheet to work out your own tax hit. But then I look out the windows - and see green fields, beautiful trees, sometimes deer in the next fields, and rabbits; I can hear nightingales - in spring - all around the house;  owls hooting away (beautiful sounds) during the day - yes they do, and at night. Wonderful butterflies on the buddleia bushes;  a couple of bats summer roosting in the garage; the busy little geckos darting everywhere, listening to the frogs croaking away through the day and night in spring..... And I can enjoy my swimming pool, and a large garden, and a shed to sit in and enjoy the peace and quiet (well, except for the big boys toys driving up and down the fields). We'd need far more money than we'll ever have to find similar location in UK, - so in those terms I feel rich living in France - even though we're as poor as church mice compared to many of our friends..... Case of 'pays your money....' Chessie

OK - I just get sick and tired of some posters always having 'a pop' at the UK in really nasty, spiteful tones as though they actually hate the UK and the UK people. Johnsons plane - or OUR UK plane - is second-hand - it's been USED - it's NOT new.   It's an air force plane which has had a small paint job which, incidentally, provided work for people and kept some in employment.  That's bad ? As for the cost - that's b---y peanuts compared to the millions and millions thrown at people to be furloughed with companies, and some very high profile 'celebs' taking the tax payers money under false pretences.   On top of which millions for teachers who haven't been teaching, and don't even want to go back to their jobs in September because they are 'frit' - stupid little snowflakes no brighter than the infants they teach. The school meals issue is something blown up out of all proportion - there weren't many; parents being paid to stay at home with time to COOK PROPER MEALS = and then they need even more money from the tax payer.   Get on with you. As for the fiddling Fillons - no comments then ? Or the other shady aspects of previous french pm's then ? Or the Macron with his wife ? The french president ordered 3 NEW planes - THREE of them in 2019 - bet you'd not criticise that would you ? As for the dumpy little german hausfrau she's also ordered new planes back in 2018/19 - any criticism from you about that ? As for MY taxes, and MY vat - I have family in the UK and I'd much prefer any additional taxes I have to pay to end up in the UK rather than here.   I prefer to put my family - and my country - first. What I find so nasty is the personal, spiteful offensive comments about a British PM who had a very close call healthwise; and offensive insults about the UK and its people. Fine, criticise the UK - but be prepared for criticisms to be made of France - which isn't perfect, which has also not been perfect in its handling of this chinese virus crisis. But how about this - Macron is such a tiny bloke that we all know he wears built-up shoes; and has had a mother complex since he was 12 - what that says about his own mother I really do wonder. The little dumpy german housefrau is a 'commie' in disguise - check out her background - should she even be the German chancellor ? You see - you want to hurl personal, nasty, offensive stuff about political leaders - others can come straight back at you. None of them's perfect - but personal insults go beyond acceptable. Chessie

Alittle ? - Jeepers - what a very nasty, offensive little post.   You vulgar little person. How about the Fillons then - potential French PM, and like all the enarcs on the fiddle. Like Chirac and the others. Can't wait to see what surfaces about Macron and his mum once he leaves office........ You need to get your facts right too before shouting your mouth off. That plane, with the lovely UK flag on it - will be used by many in the government, and probaby Royal Family as well. It's returned to normal flying duties so isn't sitting in a hanger anywhere. And I'd much rather the UK had my VAT money than the eu - see all the money spent by the eu elites on their gravy train standard of living - private jets included. Can't help feeling someone's not enjoying their sad little life at the moment - aw diddums diddums diddums.

Idun - re keys;  well partly sorted.  I know I can get replacements - the cost will be a worry.  I know what to do.  I've told OH - he's not said one word about driving to --- to get replacements.  Probably just waiting for me to organise.... now lockdown is easing then probably next week.   Thank you for asking - that's kind. As for your other comments - I do agree with you about more important matters. You know you can't mention FGM (according to another site FGM is no worse than circumcision... yea Godfathers...). The useful idiots interviewed on tv, from the so-called journalists etc to the raving loony blm mob lot - do not have a clue about the real history of what they 'think' they're protesting about.  Not a clue.  Makes one question today's teachers; think some of those responsible for the disgraceful scenes in Bristol might well have been teachers. !! You also need to be very, very careful;  it is NOT    'HIS-story' any more - aren't the feminists up in arms and wanting this to be renamed as well !!!    What with poor JK Rowling getting it in the neck for speaking the truth, we have the out and out nutter lefties turning on their own. Really didn't think this chinese virus would have totally turned people's brains to mush................. Sorry to go on;  I don't have anyone to talk to and I miss company. Chessie

Thank you everyone for helpful advice - as always, I just love this forum for help - you're a wonderful bunch. Thanks for info about bank safety charges; seems as though for 1 year's cost (approx) then I could have a decent size safe box - with keys !!!   (Aarrgh - part of the problem). OH doesn't use computer - so were anything to happen to me he'd be utterly lost; don't have mobile phones either - Luddites here I'm afraid - or we're not very important ! The friends to help idea is good; but then I think I'd worry about lumbering them with a bit of a responsibility.... Thanks for the links to safe - think that might well be the best (lock all duplicate keys inside);  then make sure I have several copies of safe key - and hand a spare key to friend - maybe that's the answer. You've all given me lots to think about - thank you all very much.   Interesting how some of you have dealt with similar problems;  the idea of a heavy safe up in an attic is fine, but did smile at the description of struggle to get it up there. You're a lovely group - thanks for help. Chessie

Euro - thank you for taking the time to read my diatribe - I did let rip didn't I - oh dear. But the scientists (yeah, I know) - but a large number of them have said that this virus should - by rights - be named the Wuhan virus (which is in china !!). You are also right about allowing flights to continue into the UK was wrong - totally agree with you - and that was a very big mistake on government's part.   But didn't Trump want to ban flights into the usa from china - and he was NOT allowed to do so and was subject to wide spread criticism.   So maybe our gvt felt they didn't want to suffer the same abuse. Not sure I was totally blaming the chinese commie party.  If the international bodies were to be allowed complete access to all the original data from china - I really don't feel there would be much doubt about where it came from - and the mis-handling and outright lies told by the chinese commies. But I doubt whether we'll ever learn the real truth - only what 'they' decide us little plebs can be told.   It will take at least 50 or 60 years for the truth to come out. As Douglas Murray wrote in his book - ...along the lines of looking back at history;  we look back 100, 200, 300 years and think 'What were they thinking of, why did they do that...'.   Future generations will look at us lot and think exactly the same. Mistakes were made, of course they were - but it is only with hindsight can we see those mistakes.  I'm sure you, like many, and me, can look back over your life and say 'Uhm that was a mistake - I wish/should have done x, y, z ' - Yes or no ? Peter Hitchens has written a thought provoking piece in today's Sunday Mail - yup - can hear the sounds of derision right now - but an interesting read.   Then contrast with pieces in the Groanio and you wonder whether they are writing about the same last 3 months, and the last 2 weeks in particular. Just as an aside - all european countries were involved in the slave trade.   As were the African tribes, North Africans - AND the Muslims. Are there any statues in France of notables who, apart from their status in life, were involved in the slave trade but then proceded to do much good ? I am sorry - I have taken this post well away from the OP.   I just miss having political discussions with family and friends..... Everyone, please forgive me - or ignore me - or just tolerate me - thank you  Chessie

Idun - I just ignored the silly little one line comment; no idea who it was directed at, nor what it really meant.   Rather typical of the lefties - no real answer just throw insults or red paint. Here's an interesting article - yup it's the dreaded Daily Mail - but it is reporting FACTS - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8414405/Police-protest-France-ban-chokeholds-wake-George-Floyds-death.html and the Oz government have told their police force in no uncertain terms that the BLM violence won't be tolerated. So my original point about the pathetic self-indulgent police 'kneeling' and which I found abhorrent I still do - and I'm not the only one. Seems there's millions feel the same way. Incidentally, several years ago the american police 'killed' a white young male in IDENTICAL cirumstances. No protests about that, were there... The person whose death is at the centre of this nonsense was a criminal, a drug addict, someone who had pointed a gun at the stomach of a pregnant woman amongst other crimes.. And HE is being held up as an 'innocent'....... and the useful idiots don't have a clue, which is why they're 'useful idiots'.    How many here have read Douglas Murray's book - 'The Madness of Crowds' - or watched him interviewed.   Might give a different perspective on what is taking place; see the lefties real power play going on - and opens one's eyes to the way the press, the media and others are manipulating people's behaviours.   They're very clever - and highly dangerous - but don't be fooled. Jeepers - the world has truly gone mad.  Must have been something in the water over the last 20 years destroying people's comon-sense and allowing the ill-liberal lefties to insinuate their way into schools, uni's, the media, and the establishment. Think we should now call a halt to this BLM rubbish on this thread;  original poster must be furious. = = = = The UK went into lock-down shortly after France;   every single country, every single government has got this wrong - whatever they did, or did not do - they was wrong - or they was right;  the infection rate is high, the infection rate is low; everyone's at risk, no-one's really at risk. We're all doomed, we're all going to survive. The experts didn't have a clue; the science wasn't up to it - the advisers were idiots - the ONLY people who got this right were the Clever Clogs with Degrees in HIND SIGHT. We are only human; we are led by very fallible human beings, who are advised by very fallible human beings. They all did their best;  we did our part by following the advice of the fallible human beings, and prayed as well, crossed our fingers, and rubbed our four-leaf shamrock - whatever.... The fingers should be pointed at china;  it originated from there, and the communist party covered up the truth for as long as they could...... That's where there needs to be full international investigations - but the commie party will not allow that to happen, and documents and people will go missing....... But the commie party have managed to deal a savage blow to the world, to our families, our lives, the financial security of our children and grand-children, and I for one won't forgive them. I intend to avoid, wherever possible, buying anything made in china - the chinese communists should not be allowed to escape unpunished. Maybe ALL governments, having muddled through as best they could, need to re-think their attitudes to China. Probably best if I put my soap-box away now for a few weeks. It seems, looking at Meteo, that we are due a heatwave in about a week's time (at least in central france) - so time to get out the bikinis, the towels, the ice making machine, stock up on paper backs and wine !! Sorry everyone - Chessie

Mint - those are all excellent ideas; think might well do the same - and keep docs somewhere safe. Have already taken photocopies of Carte Gris, insurance green cards, the CTs and have put them away 'somewhere safe'.  I can never remember the reg number of either car - it's called 'brain freeze' - just cannot remember them, no matter how I try.   So if I need to make phone calls in the past I've had to scrabble around to find original docs; now I've got photocopies that's not going to be such a problem - but my scrambled french is the bigger problem !! And no, we haven't found the keys - they have totally disappeared. Now lockdown's eased up a bit we need to get to nearest big town dealers (nice half hour drive) to arrange duplicates - probably cost more than the wretched car is worth but hey ho. What irritates is that OH just takes it all for granted; he doesn't seem that worried about losing keys, and has just sat back and waited for me to 'organise it', 'sort it out'.... - like having a 5 year old around who thinks 'someone will arrange something'............ Sorry, sorry................... For some reason the tv doesn't seem to like him very much;  he's come across the 'password' section - which I don't think I've encountered, and he's been sat there, staring at the screen, trying to put odd combinations of numbers (I think) into the 4 box password section.   I walked past him earlier this morning and saw what was on the screen.   Just thought - 'Leave him to it..'.   Walked back more than 30 minutes later and he was still staring at the screen............... !!! Oh the joys of becoming mature. Keep happy everyone Chessie

Picking up on points mentioned in various other threads, I've decided that it might be wise for me to take several photocopies of our important docs - legal and otherwise. As well as duplicates of all the keys I can think of !!   (Wasn't aware until last week that there are keys for the tow bar attachment.........sigh) But - where to store important docs.   Would any solicitor be able to store such docs safely ? Or a bank ? Any ideas anyone ? Chessie

WB - Your views from a - right wing perspective - intelligent, well-read, well informed left-wing perspective - biased, far-right, influenced by millionaire newspaper owners... Take your pick. Me - I do exactly the same; I find it helps to have different aspects of information provided - and the spin and the bias is sometimes very, very noticeable. Right-wing - as optimistic, upbeat as can be, and more in tune with ordinary people Left wing - so pessimistic about D Trump, the usa, hates the UK, full of the luvvie selfie twiteratti lot, who are bending the knee to BLM - without a clue as to what's behind that movement. We saw the rabid left-wing lot in full baying mode after D Cummings. We now see our police force leaders and officers  'bending the knee' - what the h---l? We see statues being destroyed. What next - burning of books the rabble don't like ? Even some of the lefty tv so-called 'comedy' programmes are now being banned !!!  The lefties are being banned by the even more extremist lefties - laugh or cry - don't know which. And we can see, quite clearly, that those with a biased anti-democtatic, west hating, supporters of Marx are now in full frenzied mode. Listening to some of the 'protestors' on tv being interviewed I despair at their total ignorance of British history - and then I wonder just WHAT is being taught in schools ? Then I become very, very concerned for the future of the UK. And I remember reading Orwell's 1984 -.... He definitely got it spot on about destroying history, destroying culture... nothing exists but today. Now - spot my bias !!!! Mint - I do apologise;  you posted a link to an article, in all good, faith - and said you didn't want politics brought in. I'm sorry - but the word 'Guardian', - is a red rag sometimes;  the same way the words 'Daily Telegraph' or 'Daily Mail' act the same way. Some of us can't help it. But I do apologise. ----- We've been so frightened, so brain-washed, so terrified - by the wretched media - that it seems we feel we can no longer trust our own common sense any more - which is very sad. The printing, and signing of a form merely to go and do some essential shopping felt so 'ominous', so Big Brother State - that even I, who thinks the rules never (or seldom) apply to me, found it slightly disconcerting. I think because we're missing our normal social contacts, our visits to friends, our sitting in a cafe, or having a meal in a restaurant/   We've become too, too focused on all the doom and gloom and have no group of friends with different outlooks to either cheer us up, laugh at us, put us in our place - and help us have a balanced perspective on 'life 'n stuff'. Maybe in a few weeks when more normal socialising can occur, the over the top washing of shopping, and hands, etc - will cease to be a worry. And hopefully life will return to some normality. Sorry Mint - you posted, in all innocence, an interesting article - and I've written an editorial...!! Must stop it. You could always 'run out' of washing up liquid.....!! Keep your sense of humour - more important than ever.  Bon courage. Chessie

Mint - what a terrific idea - never thought of that at all. Case of real, clever forward planning - hats off to you. Must make a note... and keep somewhere safe !! Chessie

Oh my - gulp - my name in headlines - fame, fame, I'm famous at last !!! Lori - thank you; yes I was in 'mess', really, really down - but have taken a step back, and with lovely support, and practical advice from various posters, am in process of getting original problem solved.  But thank you for caring.  (And sorry about PM - seldom think of looking at those - stupid of me). J-aka-J - oh my - a lump of undriveable metal is nothing compared to your concerns - that's a bit of a bummer isn't it ?   Let us know how you are progressing, and recovering, won't you ? To those who aren't aware of original posts - don't worry.   What I would like to say, however, is that for all our differences of opinion or life experiences, when someone has a problem, and needs advice and help (and a bit of a virtual cuddle) - there is nothing better than the people on this forum. I've thrown a wobbly before now - and have always received advice and support - for which I have been enormously grateful, and which has helped put my 'wobbly' into perspective. Never feel your problems are too trivial - they are not - and there's a wonderful group of people on here ready to help and support.......and to use a famous quote 'I love you all'   and thanks to everyone. Chessie (These emitcons are sexist - there's a beer tankard - but why no WINE GLASS or champers flute ? !!!)