"Sabots" vs traditional method for fixing joists in stone wall of barn

[thomas.smithvaniz@gmail.com]

I am planning to rennovate the wood floor in my old stone barn (walls of limestone and sandstone), and lower and level the whole thing in the process, which will mean taking the joists down and refixing them to the walls.

I have two basic options for fixing the joists into their new positions in the walls :

1) putting them in the old way, which will be a lot of work and is frankly intimidating, since the original joists go all the way through the wall which is a good 60cm thick.

2) using "sabots" (metal fixations) to attatch them either directly to the wall, maybe using a "chemical anchor", or (2b) - as I have seen on some forums - to a supporting beam which I fix along the wall with through bolts.

While option 2 looks like a lot easier, I am not so sure I like the difference in stress this implies, since the joists will not be pushing straight down on the rock wall, but pulling down on one face of it and relying on the stone wall to resist the twistingforce of the anchors or through bolts....

In any case, does anybody have any suggestions or experience in the matter ? 

Much thanks,

TOM

[Chancer]

2b is the best compromise, much stronger and easier to get all the joists on the same level.

 

You will probably find the the buried part of all the joists are rotten anyway.

[alittlebitfrench]

I would do a combination of the two.

It is a shame Leven is not about cause he/she knows their stuff when it comes to this type of thing.

[thomas.smithvaniz@gmail.com]

OK, thanks for the advice.  I'll research this option a little further.  It certainly strikes me as the easiest solution.

If you have any links to photos for the process, I'd be interested .  Sort of common sense, of course, but when it comes down to the real matter at hand, the execution, experience is a big help !

[thomas.smithvaniz@gmail.com]

A combination of the two... ?  Sounds like the best of all worlds but I'm not quite sure what you mean.  I will look into how best to go about attatching  abeam to the side of each wall.  Through bolts, big  steel plates on each end of the bolt to distribute bolt stress....

[DraytonBoy]

I've recently put in a similar new floor and have used a mixture of the two methods to accommodate a stair opening. Into the stone walls I put two thick beams one either side and attached thinner beams going in the opposite direction using sabots. I always ask the merchant who supplies the beams to do a strength/stress calculation based on the dimension of the total floor area.

[thomas.smithvaniz@gmail.com]

OK... How did you attatch the beams to the sides of the walls ?  Did you through bolt them ?  I'm thinking of doing that, but fixing them so that the brunt of the weight rests on vertical posts.  That's technology I understand (never worked with stone before).

TOM

[DraytonBoy]

The two main beams were put into the walls, it's not a difficult job and is quite quick.

[thomas.smithvaniz@gmail.com]

Yes, I got that, but how exactly did you fix the two beams to the walls ?  Throughbolts ? Sorry to be so obtuse, but if I understand you,you fixed the beams alongside each opposing wall so you could use "sabots" to afix the joist without having to punch holes in the stone walls.  But how did you fix the beam to the wall ? With a through bolt ?  I have a friend who says to just screw the sabots directdly into the stonework, but my wall is made of smallish limestone rocks and I just don't trust that solution.  ANd I don't especially like the throughbolt solution either. 

[DraytonBoy]

Sorry I should have been clearer. I knocked holes in the walls to a depth of 25/30 cm so the walls take the load.