EURL/SARL accountant fees

[European]

I am planning to set up an EURL. Spoken to an accountant who has quoted about € 1600 to set up the company. The yearly accountancy cost for the business would be around € 2000. I was also advised that a yearly legal report needs to be filed for a cost of around € 700.

Are these reasonable fees? Is the legal report obligatory for an EURL (small business no additional employees)?

Can anyone recommend any bilingual accountants?

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

Seems rather high to me. I don't think that the "legal report" is mandatory (but then, I've no idea what it is). I can recommend a good accountant, but it rather depends on where you are!

Why a EURL BTW? Why not an enterprise individuelle?

[LesFlamands]

My accountant ( French) says he can't see the point of an EURL. As with all 'Responsibilite Limitee' Societe in France the owner of the Societe does not benefit from the limited status - in other words, all his personal assets are considered to be part of the companies assets in the event of bankruptcy. In an SARL the associates benefit from the limited status but not the principal. This is to avoid people setting up £100 ltd. companies, as in the UK, to protect their own assets.

This is how it was described to me by my accountant and I would be interested to know if anyone has other information.

[Nick Trollope]

You are quite right. In any event, one can protect ones assets (phwarrrrr) by arranging a "Declaration d'insaisisabilité" (I hope!) via a Notaire as the Gerant of an SARL, the owner of a EURL or as an EI.

 

[Simon B]

Nick,

I am thinking of setting up a marketing/sponsorship consultancy in France - most of the actual work will be done abroad but I want everything above board here in France.

Have you any advice on setting up? I would ideally like to set up a partnership with my wife who makes calls, does admin etc for me. I have had some advice already to set up as a professional liberale (sp?). Is this the same and an enterprise individualle? Someone else has said I should set up a micor-enterprise.

Do you have any views on this?

Simon

[Nick Trollope]

Simon,

This is a difficult and complex subject - which I am not qualified to answer. What you really need to do is to speak to your local Chambre de Commerce and an accountant - French, of course; plenty speak English.

That said, you must appreciate that there  are seperate systems in France for registration (Fred is a plumber and gets his SIRET number from the Chambre de Metiers, my wife has a shop and gets her SIRET from the Chambre de Commerce....). A SIRET number is  the  key to self-employment in France.  Profeesion Liberale is for people they can't put into any other box! And social payments - once you have registered, you must choose your business regime - a micro  (allows you to receive  up to 27000€ - receive, not profit - not very much), an EI, EURL, SARL or whatever. Then you must consider VAT (eg. there is no compulsion to register for VAT for a micro, but it is not compulsory, as it is for all the other regimes.)

Don't worry about income tax - most don't pay any! and the system is suprisingly simple....

This is just a touch on the surface. Ask an acocuntant!

[Simon B]

Nick

Thanks for your thoughts.

As for income tax - do most people 'not pay income tax' due to the deductions a business can make added to the tax allowances?

Simon

[Will]

Having just had a meeting with our accountant (who would, incidentally, charge rather less than the original questioner quoted, but still manages to have offices in a château) I think Nick's coment was rather tongue in cheek.

Yes, income tax liability can be considerably reduced thanks to allowable expenses, but it is difficult to avoid it altogether.

The point is that all the other compulsory payments (generally lumped together as 'cotisations' which covers health, retirement, insurances and various other fees) make the amount paid in tax look rather insignificant. This comes as something of a shock to many British setting up businesses in France. Self-employed back home, they would set aside 25% to 30% for deductions, often, if they have a reasonable amount of work, get along quite nicely in France initially, when because there are no previous accounts on which to base estimates, the first two years' cotisations are based on a flat fee. Then in the third year of trading, when things catch up with them, they find they have no money to meet the demands. As a general rule, setting aside 45%-50% in France is nearer the mark, but in that vital third year it can be rather more. More non-French businesses fail in the third year than at any other time, according to the accountant.

SimonB would need to set up as a profession libérale, probably with his wife (if she is not working separately herself) as conjoint collaborateur. This can be comparatively easy, as it can be done direct through URSSAF without getting involved with the Chambre de Commerce etc, or the need to do the often-compulsory stage de gestion (French business management course) though things do seem to be changing in this respect. It is still a good idea to set things up with the help of an accountant, unless your accounts are very simple and your initial trading comes within the micro bnc taxation limits.

[Blade]

"Self-employed back home, they would set aside 25% to 30% for deductions, often, if they have a reasonable amount of work, get along quite nicely in France initially, when because there are no previous accounts on which to base estimates, the first two years' cotisations are based on a flat fee. Then in the third year of trading, when things catch up with them, they find they have no money to meet the demands. As a general rule, setting aside 45%-50% in France is nearer the mark"

 

Hi there conqueror reading through your info but did not understand all of it. if you are self employed in the uk the only thing apart from paying bills is to contribute really to NI which is for basic payment only about 2 pounds a week; in france it looks as if you have to contribute about 1200 to get maybe a pension of 300 euros per month at the end.

could you explain how the flat fee works exactly?

in the uk you can meet  an accountant initially just to get  a feel for things. would this work the same way here? thanks in  advance.

 

 

 

[quote user="Will the Conqueror"]

Having just had a meeting with our accountant (who would, incidentally, charge rather less than the original questioner quoted, but still manages to have offices in a château) I think Nick's coment was rather tongue in cheek.

Yes, income tax liability can be considerably reduced thanks to allowable expenses, but it is difficult to avoid it altogether.

The point is that all the other compulsory payments (generally lumped together as 'cotisations' which covers health, retirement, insurances and various other fees) make the amount paid in tax look rather insignificant. This comes as something of a shock to many British setting up businesses in France. Self-employed back home, they would set aside 25% to 30% for deductions, often, if they have a reasonable amount of work, get along quite nicely in France initially, when because there are no previous accounts on which to base estimates, the first two years' cotisations are based on a flat fee. Then in the third year of trading, when things catch up with them, they find they have no money to meet the demands. As a general rule, setting aside 45%-50% in France is nearer the mark, but in that vital third year it can be rather more. More non-French businesses fail in the third year than at any other time, according to the accountant.

SimonB would need to set up as a profession libérale, probably with his wife (if she is not working separately herself) as conjoint collaborateur. This can be comparatively easy, as it can be done direct through URSSAF without getting involved with the Chambre de Commerce etc, or the need to do the often-compulsory stage de gestion (French business management course) though things do seem to be changing in this respect. It is still a good idea to set things up with the help of an accountant, unless your accounts are very simple and your initial trading comes within the micro bnc taxation limits.

[/quote]

[Blade]

how does your accountant charge. does he know uk and french system? where is he based? thanks!

[Russethouse]

Hi there conqueror reading through your info but did not understand all of it. if you are self employed in the uk the only thing apart from paying bills is to contribute really to NI which is for basic payment only about 2 pounds a week;

And what about your tax ?[*-)]

You deduct your outgoings, plus your tax allowance,  from your income then set asside a % of the remainder, (your account would advise but 25% would be fairly safe) for your tax bill.