Urgent help needed with French bank

[KathyC]

Hi

I need to send some money to France urgently and I've been given the RIB and IBAN numbers. Having phoned my bank first, it appears that I also need the name of the bank and its address. I know that these numbers include the account number etc. but I wonder if it's possible to decode the information I need from them. If so, could tell me which bit of the number I need and whether there's any web site I could use to decode the information. The money's not going through my Britline account but would they be likely to be able to help me? Any information available quickly would be gratefully received.

[Dick Smith]

You mean you are paying in to someone else's account, but they haven't told you the name of the bank? As I recall you will need that, and the street address, so you may need to get in touch with the recipient if possible. I imagine that the data on the RIB would tell a French bank what it needs to know, but there is no way of accessing that information from a UK bank.

[KathyC]

Thanks Dick, yes that's exactly what I meant. Unfortunately I can't get in touch with the person it's going to and have to see if he answers his voicemail. In the UK, you'd be able to get this information from the sort code and I was hoping that this would be the case in France as well.

[KathyC]

[quote user="Puzzled"]

Will this help?

You can find the name of the bank by using the cib to find the first number of the code banque and then use pages jaunes to get the address.

http://www.banque-france.fr/fr/supervi/supervi_banc/publi/capec/CIB_1_P.HTM

[/quote]

That's exactly what I was looking for, Puzzled. Thanks very much. Unfortunately the number I want isn't there, so I'm back to square 1.

[KathyC]

Thank you again so much. Unfortunately the relevant number is 12406 and it just isn't there!

[Dick Smith]

On the other hand, the recipient didn't send you what you need and you have told them so - so it's really up to them to get the information to you, so don't beat yourself up about it.

[Teamedup]

I have sent some money to Spain this week and wasn't given the name and address of the spannish bank just their code and my french bank didn't ask for it. So far so good, my bank have not been back onto me. So I don't think that the name and address of the bank can be that important, the BIC and IBAN are.

All I put onto the form as the bank's name and address is the first part of the BIC code.

Is there REALLY any reason why you cannot do this too? And as long as you have all the right details, your british bank is as capable of finding this out as you are.

[Missy]

[quote user="KathyC"]Thank you again so much. Unfortunately the relevant number is 12406 and it just isn't there![/quote]

 

That's because it could be a La Poste bank or a Caisse d'Epargne or a smaller bank. They have a different number than the high street banks. The wellknown high street banks mostly have a code number starting with 3 after the FRxx.

Do you have a BIC SWIFT number ?... it should tell you which bank it is.

BNP is Banque Nationale de Paris (as in BNP Paribas). SOGE is Société Générale. BP is Banque Populaire.

BF is Banque de France (the Trésor Public bank where you pay all your taxes to etc...) and its number after the FRxx on the IBAN is always 30001....

 

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Teamedup"]

Is there REALLY any reason why you cannot do this too? And as long as you have all the right details, your british bank is as capable of finding this out as you are.

[/quote]

In my experience the children who work in UK banks understand so little that any kind of international transfer is a lottery. We were recently told (by letter) that a transfer had failed (no street address for the bank - our bank!) and on the same day we got a letter confirming that the money had been received by the French bank...

[Teamedup]

LOL I was that 'child' who worked in a UK bank. And very good I was at it too, there again I was trained to a very high standard, something which made me shine out when I worked for other companies.

 

I think that if you contact the seige sociale for the Credit Agricole in the Bergerac, 05 53 24 44 44, you will find that they can give you the address.

 

I googled code bancaire 12406 and two places that banked with the CA in the Bergerac region came up. So it should be them. You would have to give them the guichet number to get the exact branch.

[KathyC]

Thanks to everyone and especially Puzzler. You're a STAR!  I now have everything that I need. The trouble was that I sent a cheque for building work that seems to have gone missing and another hiccough might have got him smelling a rat.

You're absolutely right about British banks, Dick; particularly at the centre of international finance that is the Isle of Wight. They have to have the address and that's all there is to it.

Result!

[Teamedup]

Kathy, you only have the address of the local head office and probably not the branch the money is going to. It is the guichet number that dictates exactly where this money will be sent, so IF you need the right details, surely you would need the address of the branch and not the head office.

[Dick Smith]

Please don't take this as gospel, but the problem about the address in our case was on the British side - the French system could identify the branch from the guichet as TU says. The UK bank just had a wobbly because they didn't know what was what. They couldn't find their *&%$ with both hands and a set of written intructions, either.

[KathyC]

TU

Fortunately I was able to phone the English helpline that Puzzled found for me and they gave me the address after I gave them the IBAN number. Money now en route and panic over. Thanks again for all the help.

[Teamedup]

Good, pleased it is sorted. UK banks sorting codes are really easy in comparison to the french system. As I said, my french bank didn't even want a bank name or an address a couple of days ago.

[allanb]

[quote user="Teamedup"]UK banks sorting codes are really easy in comparison to the french system.[/quote]I think you're being a bit unfair to what you call the "French system" (actually it's the European system for international payments, and it's recognized in the UK as well - you'll find an IBAN and a BIC on your British bank statement if you look closely.) 

The UK sort code identifies the bank and branch, nothing else.  It doesn't even identify the country.

The IBAN identifies the country, the bank, the branch, the customer, and the account.  I don't think you could do that with 6 digits.

The BIC identifies the country and the bank.  If it has 11 characters, it also identifies the branch. 

I admit that I find it a bit annoying to be asked to give the name and address of the bank branch, in addition to all the codes.  I once asked a banking friend and he said it wouldn't be necessary if the coded information was always correct and legible; but if there's any doubt about the code, the full name and address will help.  I suppose that makes sense.

[Teamedup]

Unfair? Kathy asked what 12406 was. That is not the 'international' number, that is the french bank code (code de banque) c'est tout, what on earth is international about it? AND it doesn't even indicate it is FRENCH either.

AND in France one has to know the guichet number to find out which branch of which bank. In the UK the sorting code says it all. Nothing to do with anything international.

 

I know exactly how this works and as I have said, I didn't have to give bank and branch details for my transfer.

[allanb]

I didn't say anything about the number Kathy quoted, because I don't

know what it is.  What I wrote is correct.  Let me repeat it:

The UK sort code identifies the bank and branch, nothing else.  It doesn't even identify the country.

The

IBAN identifies the country, the bank, the branch, the customer, and

the account. 

The BIC identifies the country and the bank.  If it has 11 characters, it also identifies the branch.

In France you can identify the branch by the "code banque" and the

"code guichet", as you said.  I didn't say that these are

"international", but they are both included in the IBAN.  There's

nothing wrong with the UK sort code, but it wasn't incorporated in

the IBAN standard.  That's all.

Incidentally, anyone - not only a bank - can find out the name and nationality of the bank, and the branch or department, from the 11-character BIC.  This is available on line (e.g. at www.swift.com/biconline) and also in the form of a large reference book which I'm sure is available to anyone working in a bank.  I don't know whether the same is true for the IBAN, although I know there are online services for checking whether a given IBAN is valid.

[Teamedup]

Listen you said I wasn't being fair. I said that the UK bank sorting codes were a better system as they offer more detail, . French and UK bank codes are both anonymous though and offer no international indicators. The UK code at least offers branch detail, you need to know more details to find a branch in France.

I know exactly what IBAN and BIC numbers are. We have them in France we have them in the UK they are international. The bank code for the customer from any country is included in the IBAN, how could it not be.

[allanb]

Sorry, I think I've lost your drift.  

We agree, I think, that if you want to specify a particular branch of a particular bank, you can do it with a 6-digit code in the UK (the sort code) and a 10-digit code in France (code banque + code guichet). 

Both codes are incorporated in the IBAN, but each country has its own version of the IBAN layout.  In France the 10 digits occupy positions 5 through 14; in the UK the 6 digits occupy positions 13 through 18. 

I don't know what you mean when you say the UK sort code "offers more detail".  It's shorter, so I suppose you could say it's more efficient.  If that's what you meant, I agree with you (in fact the whole IBAN is 5 characters shorter in the UK than in France).

The reason for my comments about the BIC is that (if you go back to the initial posts) somebody had told Kathy that a British bank couldn't identify the French bank branch.   If they had been given the RIB, the statement was incorrect; the standard form of RIB shows both the IBAN and the BIC, from which the bank and branch can be identified.

[KathyC]

[quote user="allanb"]

The reason for my comments about the BIC is that (if you go back to the initial posts) somebody had told Kathy that a British bank couldn't identify the French bank branch.   If they had been given the RIB, the statement was incorrect; the standard form of RIB shows both the IBAN and the BIC, from which the bank and branch can be identified.

[/quote]

I think that it wasn't so much a case of couldn't as wouldn't (or possibly couldn't be bothered). I had the RIB and the bank still needed the name and address. It might have been different if they did many foreign transfers; as it is, they all hide under their desks when they see the foreign transfer woman come in! ( I hope that's the reason.)

[allanb]

Perhaps what you should do is give them your sweetest smile and offer them the 'SWIFT' link.