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Taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation


c1mls

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I bought a flat in Biarritz in May 2006 and have had no contact from the tax people regarding a bill for either of these 2 taxes. Does anyone have any experience of what normally happens and is there a weblink to the correct departments in Biarritz in case I need to contact them direct? Thanks for your help
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I bought a house in la Vienne in July 2005 and did not receive any bills until Autumn 2006. Don't worry, they'll send the bills when they are ready. Just make sure that they have your correct adress so you can receive them when they send them as I think there are penalties for late payment.
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They have been known to send the bills to the address recorded in the property purchase documents.

In our case, the taxe foncière was sent to a UK address we were no longer living at and we were made not aware of it until a kind neighbour forwarded it to us in France.

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  • 2 weeks later...
You will pay Taxe Habitation on a house that you live in on 1st January

in the tax year, if you moved in or bought after this then you will

only pay the year afterwards and even then this is only paid in the

following year, confused ??? Example : you buy property in May 2005,

you are eligible for Taxe d'habitation from January 2006 but you will

be asked to pay it in 2007.  Taxe d'habitation takes into account

the people living in the house (number of children etc) but taxe

foncière is solely valued on the house and its facilities like council

tax in the UK.

Taxe foncière is normally divided between the purchaser and the seller

of a house in the year that the transaction takes place and on a pro

rata basis (split according to the months you or they own the property

over a 12 month period) this is normally specified in your purchase

agreement documents from the notaire.  Not sure when you get this

bill though.

hope this helps

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Hi All

It is perfectly normal for the fonciere to be split between the seller and the buyer, this has been the case in each purchase we've made.  The bill goes to the person who was occupying the house on the 1st Jan, they then 'can' send the new owner a bill (normally a simple copy of the tax fonciere showing the split) for the part that starts on the day of the sale.  So in your example if you buy on 1st May 2006 you 'could' receive a bill from the seller in Nov/Dec 2006 for the part of the bill from 1st May 2006 until 31 December 2006, ie the part of the year that you were resident in the house.  In our 1st purchase whilst it was specifed in the acte de vente (and I think it always is) the seller did not bill us for the part owed by us but they could have (sale was late in the year and the amounts involved quite small). 

We have just sold (feb) and we have every intention of billing the new occupier as it will be almost a full year and we also expect that the seller of the house we have just purchased will do likewise and bill us.  For some bizarre reason the same does not apply to the tax d'habitation and the seller is always responsible the new owner taking over from the next 1st of Jan.

Hope that I have not made this more complicated now...

Panda

 

 

 

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[quote user="miaviv"] Taxe d'habitation takes into account the people living in the house (number of children etc) [/quote]

 

We pay taxe d'hab and nobody lives there. Our understanding was that taxe d'hab is like old rates; related to a notional 'value' and you cannot avoid it unless the place is uninhabitable (unfurnished ?) on Jan 1st..

There may well be 'discounts' for having kids though. 

Warning. I may be wrong, and from the sound of it I hope I am.

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[quote user="miaviv"]You will pay Taxe Habitation on a house that you live in on 1st January in the tax year, if you moved in or bought after this then you will only pay the year afterwards and even then this is only paid in the following year, confused ??? Example : you buy property in May 2005, you are eligible for Taxe d'habitation from January 2006 but you will be asked to pay it in 2007.  Taxe d'habitation takes into account the people living in the house (number of children etc) but taxe foncière is solely valued on the house and its facilities like council tax in the UK.

Taxe foncière is normally divided between the purchaser and the seller of a house in the year that the transaction takes place and on a pro rata basis (split according to the months you or they own the property over a 12 month period) this is normally specified in your purchase agreement documents from the notaire.  Not sure when you get this bill though.

hope this helps

[/quote]

Interesting comments.  I haven't experienced any of this and nor have my parents who bought in the next village.  We bought in Aug 1999 and got our first set of bills in Autumn 2000.  The previous owner paid all of the fonciere for 1999 and the habitation was just carried over as being the same as the previous owners, no questions ever asked as to how many people occupy the house.  We have just had it extended and are now getting a revised bill.  Exactly the same happened with parents.  They bought in Nov 2003, first bills came in autumn 2004 and revised habitation charged last year (2006) on extension they had built in 2005.

I don't see how habitation could be done on number of people resident as so many houses are owned by foreigners who do not submit a tax return in France and do not pay into the health system; therefore the authorities have no way of knowing how many people are living in/using the house. 

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This shows once again how much things vary in different parts of France. We paid the vendors our share of the taxes for the year in which we bought. We have never been asked how many people live in the house; the tax did go up when we added a shower room.

I seem to remember a discussion here some time ago now where you could get a reduction in your tax if you were in receipt of some sort of state benefit. Maybe someone with a better memory than me knows.

 

Hoddy

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[quote user="Coco"]

I don't see how habitation could be done on number of people resident as so many houses are owned by foreigners who do not submit a tax return in France and do not pay into the health system; therefore the authorities have no way of knowing how many people are living in/using the house. 

[/quote]

I was told by the previous tenant of the house we rent [if I understood her correctly]  that there is a maximum taxe d'hab that is applied to a property unless your situation means it can be reduced ie if a family has 3 children or is on a low income etc - as all such details can be gleaned by the authorities from the tax return that is completed by the family. Hence resident foreigners who have a high income will pay the full amount also anyone who does not complete a french tax form.

Sue

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Hi All

Tax d'habitation can be reduced if you submit a tax return and are on a low income, ours was next to nothing last year because we had a low income in 2005.  It's all a bit confusing but you are right hoddy the reduction has been discussed before, it is only Tax d'hab which is reduced on this basis fonciere remains the same. 

On the number of people front, there is some kind of calculation based on number of people, if you read the first page of your bill there is a section numbered (2) Abbatements (allowances) and says personnes a charge, then par personne rang 1 ou 2, then next line 3 ou +, then a percentage .... have no idea what effect this has on the bill or how they know who lives in the house although the bill states occupants and has myself and husband listed and we have one son and the personne a charge section states one.....

Clear as mud...

Panda

 

 

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Hi Debra

I was not suggesting you could just bill someone, it is in the compromis and acte de vente that it is the new owners responsibility to pay tax fonciere from the date of completion.  We are on our 4th purchase here and it's been in every one of them, could be a regional thing but I doubt that very much, it was never a 'do you accept to pay the tax fonc' conversation it was a 'as you know you are responsble for the tax fonciere' conversation 'from the date of completion' ....it's a legal requirement not something done on a whim... so I don't imagine you can tell someone where to go..

EDIT: and you're right if you search you can see the subject has been dicsussed a few times and following the timeline it looks like from around 2004 it became common practice to split the fonciere bill and this is specifed in the contracts of sale...in our case in the compromis I've just checked it's under charges and conditions generales, Impots et Taxes, states that the seller is free (from the date of completion) of  taxes relating to property including the tax fonciere which for the year of the sale will be apportioned between the buyer and seller taking into account the date of completion..

 

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Hello Debra

Looking on immouniverse.fr (a french house buying forum) the term 'prorata de taxe foncière', comes up a lot.  Many are kicking off about having to pay it and some suggest being taken to a tribunal if you don't pay.  This all relies on the detail being in the acte de vente, we have bought (and sold) in the Vienne and the Charente with 4 different notaires, all have this in the acte.  I think it is common place now but it must be notaire dependant and my comment on not being able to tell someone where to go when asked to pay should have said I guess that for us it's a legal requirement (and any one else where it is in the final acte). 

I would state again though that in no way was this an agreement between the parties, we were told by the notaire in each case that it was our responsibility, we were not asked if we agreed.  Equally when we sold the notaire didn't ask, do you want the buyer to pay their portion of the fonciere, it was stated as a fact that they would (this was a different notaire to the one we bought from)

Anywho, I'm bored of this subject now....wish I never stuck my oar in

I see you have a lake or fishing business, we do too ours is only a small one though (lake that is we haven't a fishing business), did you ever get coypu on the lake, we have a couple and we know of the issues,(this is our second purchase of house and lake), if you did how did you get rid of them??

Panda

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[quote user="Panda "]

Looking on immouniverse.fr (a french house buying forum) the term 'prorata de taxe foncière', comes up a lot.  Panda [/quote]

After much faffing about I discovered that the site might be http://www.universimmo.com/accueil/uniacc000.asp

If this is the correct URL then it is a most useful site; for me especially as my OH and I rent our house.

So the question is how did you come across this site Panda?

Sue

 

 

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Hello Spg

Sorry it's one of my favourites and I clearly should take more notice of the actual URL, not sure how I came across it but we rent appartments too so maybe I googled for something when I started longterm letting, it was the forum where I saw the prorata fonciere stuff.

Panda

 

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[quote user="Hoddy"]the tax did go up when we added a shower room[/quote]I wonder what percentage this added to your bill ?

We are considering adding an ensuite to one bedroom and also converting the downstairs garage/utility area into a self contained apartment so I am interested in how much this might put my taxes up.

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Just reading the comments that have ensued since I posted on this

subject.  Just to clarify on the taxe d'habitation situation - I

have lived here for 15 years, have paid income tax for about that long

too so have always paid taxe d'hab according to my family make-up and

the type of property that I lived in (single girl in a Paris flat/young

married couple/couple with 2 kids in a big house etc).  I hadn't

thought that some reading these posts wouldn't earn a living in

France/don't delcare income tax here so excuse the confusion. 

Taxe foncière - it was written into my last acte de vente that this

would be split pro-rata between previous and new owners of the house,

this is perhaps not the case for everyone.

Taxe d'hab is paid by all regardless whether you own the home or just rent it.  Taxe foncière is only for homeowners.

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