Second Year Tax Return

[Benjamin]

This will be our second year of submitting our French tax return.

In the post today we have received two blank copies of form number 2047-K with explanatory notes but without form 2042.

Do these follow on after all of the "foreigners" have been dealt with or am I missing something?

[Llwyncelyn]

Same here Benjamin and incidentally have got St Lo Impot to agree upon my wife's disability and ahead of COTOREP agreeing!

[Benjamin]

That is really good news Llwyncelyn. [:D]

No one wants a disability but to have it acknowledged is something.

[Mikew]

Download copies of forms here:

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/

and print your own!

link edited and made live by a moderator

[Ron Avery]

Benjamin

As it is your second year you can fill in your return on line, much easier than filling in the paper forms plus you get 20€ discount for doing it.  You can do a dummy calculation on the tax site to check your figures if you want before completing the form and you can print out a copy of your return for your records

You should have the 2042 form as well but that may be next and will be pre-printed with your details, make sure you don't get the simplified form ( for salaried people) as that is no good for your purposes,  The 2042 will also have a teledeclarant number at the bottom that you will need to declare on line.

[Sunday Driver]

Ron

I'm puzzled by your reference to the simplified 2042 not being suitable for us.  My last year's declaration was a simplified 2042 which had the necessary boxes for my pension and savings interest.  The impots on-line simulator also features a simplified 2042 which is the same as my paper form.

There are different versions of the 2042 which deal with exceptional circumstances, ie, capital gains, agricultural income, working abroad etc, but I doubt that these would relevent to most of us here.

 

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Ron

I'm puzzled by your reference to the simplified 2042 not being suitable for us.  My last year's declaration was a simplified 2042 which had the necessary boxes for my pension and savings interest.  The impots on-line simulator also features a simplified 2042 which is the same as my paper form.

There are different versions of the 2042 which deal with exceptional circumstances, ie, capital gains, agricultural income, working abroad etc, but I doubt that these would relevent to most of us here.

 [/quote]

The one I was referring to was the 2042 (s) that is/was a two page form for employed people on salaries, I got one in the post the second year here and on enquiry it turned out not to the one I was required to fill in , it was not pre-printed and is not the same " simplified" version that you are referring to, that came about with the on-line form.

[Benjamin]

Thanks for your help. [:D]

[Benjamin]

I have a Catch-22 situation here.[6]

I've just tried to register for on-line services.

To do so I need my Numéro Fiscal which I've got from the tax payment advice that I received last year.I then need my Revenu Fiscal de Référence which I've also got from last year's Detail des Revenus. I need a valid email address which I've got.

The fourth bit of information I need is my Numéro de Télédéclarant which, wait for it, is a 7 figure reference on the bottom of this year's declaration.

As it's not on the 2047-K I've received then I can only surmise that it's on the bottom of the 2042 which I haven't got!!!!!! Aaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggg!!!!!

So much for getting this little job out of the way. I'll just have to wait and see if it arrives shortly or if not it's a visit to Les Impôts.

Very nice and helpful lady in Lucon tax office.

Also whilst trawling the Impôts web site I noticed (although I can't find it now) that you have to renew your on line subscription every three years.

[cooperlola]

I had the same thing.  You should have the e-mail address of your tax office on your tax documents.  I sent them an e-mail and they provided my number within 24 hours.  Or you could phone them.

[Benjamin]

An update. 2042 arrived in the post today.

What a waste of postage. [:P]

[Roz]

Hi, we have also received our tax forms for our second year here.. two copies of 2042K with both our names on each.. is one to be retained for our own copy? We've also had a 12-page document (mostly notes it seems) No. 2041-K which seems different from last year.. I know completed two sets of forms, but I only have a copy of the 2042K - and that only records the hubster's co. pension. - the Centre d'impot lady indicated in pencil where we were to fill it in... I'm concerned now that we didn't complete box TS on this form, with interest on UK savings, as suggested here.. but the figures were put on the other form... I'm so wishing I'd been more careful in keeping notes and copies last year..   If there's already a definitive guide to completing these tax forms around here it would be really useful to bump it!

[Gastines]

Sunday Driver, you wouldn't like a job at the St. Malo. H.d.I. would you? Each year we fill the forms in and as the tax office is only down the road ,take them in to see all is OK. Each year we get a different person with a different view on things. When we mentioned interest from UK, the lady waved her hands about as if to say ,we don't want to know!! We left, confused, and completed the forms as before and put them in the letter box.

Regards.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Roz"]

Hi, we have also received our tax forms for our second year here, two copies of 2042K with both our names on each.  You do a household return, that is why both your names are on it.

Is one to be retained for our own copy?  YES

We've also had a 12-page document (mostly notes it seems) No. 2041-K which seems different from last year.  If you mean 2047 K,  its not different from last year but in a simplified format to the year before.

 I know completed two sets of forms, but I only have a copy of the 2042K - and that only records the hubster's co. pension. - the Centre d'impot lady indicated in pencil where we were to fill it in.

Be careful with first time filling in "help", they do not always understand what state and private pensions are, they do not mean the same thing in France as the UK, and interest they sometimes "forget" or overlook if it needs a currency calculation, it should however be declared as it is subject to separate social charges. 

I'm concerned now that we didn't complete box TS on this form, with interest on UK savings, as suggested here.

You should have declared your UK

savings interest on the pink 2047K and carried it over to box TS on form 2042.  As SD

had said somewhere else, the 2047 is a working paper, if you get earnings from different

countries you have to factor your earnings and savings to different

figures,  for the UK this is not necessary.  On 2047K your joint pensions

go into section 1 and your interest in section lV in box TS.  You carry

those figures over onto the 2042 , the pension(s) go in section 1 AS

and interest in section 2 box TS and that is it for a private pension and savings interest. It is slightly different if you have a State ie Government/civil service type pension taxed in the UK, that goes in box TI as it is already taxeed.

 If you are doing it

manually you should sign both copies of both forms and send one of each

to your tax office, but you can do it on line and pay on line and save 20€, it really is not that hard.

[/quote]

[Roz]

Hi Ron, thanks SO much for your reply.. we've definitely got  form 2041-K (blue print on white paper) Maybe it's been sent in error? Oh dear We thought we'd managed to do it all properly last year, but definitely didn't put the savings interest figure onto the second (K 2042) form.. Our only income is my husband's company pension and the interest being earned on some money in a UK bank. We had been told by friends not to declare anything already being taxed in the UK, but declared all.. and that was clearly incorrect advice reading around here.. since the purpose seems to be to assess you for social contributions rather than tax you again, is that correct?

Someone here mentioned getting an allowance for their married children.. is that correct? We weren't asked to include ours, and since they both live in the UK.. it didn't seem relevant.

Oh! on a slightly different tack, my husband reaches 60 next year.. does that change anything here, ie healthcare costs, free buspasses, etc?

Thanks again,

Roz

[Ron Avery]

Hi Ron, thanks SO much for your reply.. we've definitely got  form 2041-K (blue print on white paper)

The French tax office site does not list a form 2041K, its the explanatory notes for completing the 2042.  Anyhow you only need a 2047k and 2042k.

 We had been told by friends not to declare anything already being taxed in the UK.

This is totally wrong information, and will lead to people paying tax twice.  If people are paying tax on savings in the UK and not claiming it back that is their fault, it does not exempt them from paying tax on that income in France, unless it is offshore for which there are different rules. You can claim the tax back by simply doing a self assessment tax return to the UK.  On that you do not have to declare your pension as it is taxed in France and so you get your tax paid on the interest back if it is or should be below your Free pay amount.

.... and that was clearly incorrect advice reading around here, yes it was, interest on savings has to be declared in France and is subject to separate social charges.

......since the purpose seems to be to assess you for social contributions rather than tax you again, is that correct?

No, only government  civil service army etc pensions HAVE to be taxed in the UK, but they are also declared in France for calculating health care contributions and the level of tax to be paid on income that is taxable in France.

Someone here mentioned getting an allowance for their married children.. is that correct?

No, of course it is not, now you know why so much tax is calculated wrongly in the UK if that is how a tax inspector interprets dependent children[:D].

Oh! on a slightly different tack, my husband reaches 60 next year, does that change anything here, ie healthcare costs, free buspasses, etc?  No just a birthday card from you[:P] Things change only when either of you get your old age pension fronm the UK , at that point you stop paying into the French health care system and your 65-70% costs are covered by the UK.

[Gastines]

Ron. How come you know more than most of the staff at UK pensions depts? My first pension papers came in January with pension due from mid April. I have asked by phone twice,by e-mail 4 times and by post to try and get the E121.  Still waiting for the application form? Why does every enquiry need 8 weeks for a reply? I thought Mr.Brown Esq. had taken on another 125.000 staff to help? Each time I try and contact anybody they have either left,off sick, or on a course.  So far I've had post from 7 different people.I'm quite convinced that there must be a sign in all Government offices that MIGHT involve outgoing payments  that says." Cause as much stress as possible". Mind you it might only apply to me.

Regards.

[Benjamin]

The other wheeze they pull is not including your dependents despite having supplied all the relevant detail.

The post arrives, you rip open the envelope and then discover that you've got to start all over again.

It's happened to us twice now with E121's. [:D]

[Gastines]

Benjamin. Please don't leave it like that!!! When and if I get this B----y form, exactly what boxes do I fill in for dependant?  Do they do all this just hoping you'll give up.or die in the meantime? Perhaps commission for not paying comes into the form examiners remit? Do people who haven't paid their dues into the system [ and I have 3 different computer readouts to prove I've paid in] get all this aggravation I wonder?

Regards.

[Ron Avery]

Part of the problem with an E form is that the Admin Centre for Non Residents in Nottingham does not hold your tax, W & P or NI records, these have to be obtained from your tax office and if with a DB claim from Work and pensions and that is what takes the time, its not Nottingham messing about, they can only wait for the information to return, this can take time particularly if you choose a time like January/February when all the self assessment forms for self employed are going in and being checked.

[Benjamin]

Gastines

You don't fill anything in on the E121: that has already been done by the issuing office. It is to be handed to CPAM, or whoever, exactly as you received it.

It is therefore important that when you made your original request that you included all of your dependants.

[Chas]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Hi Ron, thanks SO much for your reply.. we've definitely got  form 2041-K (blue print on white paper)

The French tax office site does not list a form 2041K, unless it is the form for giving payment details which is No 2041.  Anyhow you only need a 2047k and 2042k.

[/quote]

"2041-K   -  Déclaration Préremplie des Revenus de 2006    - Notice".  It's the notes for filling in the form 2042K

[Roz]

Thanks Chas! [8-)][:$] It doesn't take much these days... So I've only got the 2042K, presumeably the 2047K will be arriving shortly.. might as well hang on and get one big headache instead of two smaller ones..  thank goodness it's worth it! [;-)]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Avery]

Roz

I think you will find most of us got the 2047 first.  You can get one from your tax office or download one off the French tax site.

[allanb]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]The impots on-line simulator also features a simplified 2042 which is the same as my paper form.[/quote]For some people, it may save wasted time to know that the on-line simulator is still not capable of dealing with those kinds of income which are not taxable in France but which have to be taken into account in calculating your tax rate, e.g. pensions from government employment (civil service, police, etc) which have to be reported on the paper form in box TI.

The slightly irritating thing is that the simulator lets you work all the way to box TI, which is nearly at the end of the form, before it tells you this.