Which tax forms do I use

[Chancer]

It has taken an accident and a hospital stay (see the health section) to shake me into doing the right thing and visiting L'Hotel des impots to do a tax declaration.

At first they tried their best to dissuade me and that as my (limited) income comes from and is taxed in the UK that was my centre of economic interest and that I should go away and stop bothering them.

As I had  read many times on this forum that I should complete a declaration and pay some social charges I persisted, and they sent me away with every form that they thought might be applicable to me. I should add that my French is now very good so there was no misunderstanding and I can understand the forms that I have.

However it is quite a strain reading these forms as my one remaining eye is no longer adapted to my reading glasses, it is also quite hard to use this computer, so I would like to ask for advice on what forms to fill out and what specific areas.

My situation is:

I last worked and paid taxes in March 2004 when I left the UK to travel.

I live on the diminishing capital and interest on my UK savings which are taxed at source. I have no pension or other income.

I was dividing my time between here and the UK until June 2006, thereafter I consider myself to have been domiciled here.

I do not have any income here as I have been converting my property into rental apartments for future income.

I still have a property in the UK, there was some rental income during 2006 but as yet none this year.

I am single, have no dependants and live alone.

The forms that I have are:

2042 déclaration des revenus 2006

2047 DDR encaissés à L'étranger 2006

2044 DDR fonciers 2006 (2 copies)

I would really appreciate any help from anyone to assist me in finally doing the right thing!

In mitigation, one of the reasons for dragging my feet is that I did not have a financial incentive to be in the french health system as after making a reclamation using my EHIC I was given a social security number and thereafter was able to reclaim 70% or so of any medical expenses. I told myself that I would only need a mutuelle or the CMU if I had a bad accident needing hospitalisation and operations and that would never happen to me......

Famous last words§

 

[cooperlola]

From memory, there's also a form to fill in declaring any bank accounts you have in the UK (well, actually outside France).  The others sound right to me.  SD will undoubtedly have the up-to-date low-down... it's a couple of years since I did this.

Poor you, sorry about the accident.  I have a friend who had a similar thing to you.  He copes famously now, drives and does all he ever did.  You could always be PM if all else fails....

[Chancer]

Surely someone can help me here? I am after all trying to do the right thing but encountering some difficulties in reading.

Or do I have to change the subject title to "Can I get away without registering for impots?" that type of posting always seems to generate many replies!

[suein56]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

From memory, there's also a form to fill in declaring any bank accounts you have in the UK (well, actually outside France).  The others sound right to me.  [/quote]

JR

I agree with CL re the tax forms you have and the 3916 form is the one for declaring accounts held outside of France.

What other help do you need?

Sue

[Chancer]

Thanks Sue

I need(ed) confirmation as to which forms to use from those that I have, what sections are relevant etc.

My French is good enough to decide the latter but didn't want to strain my remaining eye (which in turn causes pain in the damaged one) struggling to read forms that may not in fact be needed.

So can you or anyone else confirm that I need to complete all the above mentioned forms and also the form 3916? That would be a great help, certainly more than the 2 hotel des impots that I visited, the first one refused to give me any forms, they said that I came under the jurisdiction of the city of Amiens and that I had to go and get the forms from there despite it being really difficult for me to travel to and find my way around there.

I will try once more at the more local and easier to access office at Peronne for the form 3916.

[suein56]

If you go here you can download and print off the forms you need. Down the page a way a sheaf of papers is shown and the title says: obtenir un formulaire.

You might have to go back to the welcome particulier page here and type 3916 in the box to get access to that one, but it is there as I always download it as the tax office don't send me one for some reason.

Sue 

[Ron Avery]

JR sorry about your injury but I have little sympathy for your situation now., I am sorry but I think you are being a bit economical with the truth here and that is maybe why others who know about tax matters are not rushing in to help you, it may also be because when we declared our tax in May this year for 2006, there were lots of threads about which forms to use and which boxes to fill in.  So do a search on 2042 and/or 2047 or see at the bottom.

I find your story puzzling, particularly that bit about getting a carte vitale or SS number with a EHIC, that is frankly rubbish, the two are mutually exclusive, you have to be employed or provide a tax return or sign an attestation of income to join the CMU and get a CMU attestation, so how come you are getting back 70% of your costs without having done so? 

That aside as you have now fallen on your sword so to speak,  you should do a declaration for each tax year that you have actually lived in France, don't mess about with "I lived between countries" you didn't, your home was in one or the other, remember utilty bills can be checked and now you are in the French system you risk big fines if you continue to mess about and get caught.  You can download and use the 2006 tax forms for previous years just cross out 2006 and write the appropriate year,  As Coops says you have to declare all bank accounts on the form SPG mentioned, 3916.  You fill in forms 2047 and 2042. Do a search if you are unclear about these forms there were lots of threads on these topics back in April/May.

To help you in completing your tax return, when you say that you do not have any income here that is not true, you do.  Your worldwide income and that includes interest from savings and rental income has to be declared in France and your savings should not be taxed at source in the UK,  you are a French resident and you will if you breech he tax trhesholds pay tax and social charges on them in France, but you will pay tax in both countries unless you claim the tax paid back from the UK but that may be difficult if you have not told the UK that you have left the country. 

Interest on savings goes in box TS on the 2047 and carries over on to the 2042 if that is your only income.

I hope this helps. 

[Patf]

I think you should collect your documents together for 2006 ie evidence of rents and bank interest etc and go back to the hotel des impots and ask them to help you. This is what many people do the first time. Tax on UK rent is paid in UK but declared here.

[cooperlola]

I second Patf's comments - my hotel des impots is very helpful indeed.  They seem pretty amazed at any non-French person who's honest enough to declare anything and are glad to get your euros. Failing that, I know a good accountant, if that would help.

Edit : It occurs to me that the reluctance of your local tax office may have something to do with the time of year.  When we first moved here, we dutifully toddled off to our local tax office to get "into the system."  The response was basically, go away and come back in March when the new forms come out - we're not dealing with tax returns at the moment.  You will be delaring your 2007 income in Spring 2008 and your 2006 income would normally have been declared by now, so maybe that's why they weren't interested.

[chessfou]

[quote]I second Patf's comments - my hotel des impots is very helpful indeed.[cooperlola][/quote]

Yes, ours too; they had some special sessions for the hard of hearing (maybe also sight-impaired, I can't quite recall) this year in the hectic run-up to D*-day in May.

*(Declaration / Delivery)

[Chancer]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

JR sorry about your injury but I have little sympathy for your situation now., I am sorry but I think you are being a bit economical with the truth here and that is maybe why others who know about tax matters are not rushing in to help you, it may also be because when we declared our tax in May this year for 2006, there were lots of threads about which forms to use and which boxes to fill in.  So do a search on 2042 and/or 2047 or see at the bottom.

I find your story puzzling, particularly that bit about getting a carte vitale or SS number with a EHIC, that is frankly rubbish, the two are mutually exclusive, you have to be employed or provide a tax return or sign an attestation of income to join the CMU and get a CMU attestation, so how come you are getting back 70% of your costs without having done so? 

That aside as you have now fallen on your sword so to speak,  you should do a declaration for each tax year that you have actually lived in France, don't mess about with "I lived between countries" you didn't, your home was in one or the other, remember utilty bills can be checked and now you are in the French system you risk big fines if you continue to mess about and get caught.  You can download and use the 2006 tax forms for previous years just cross out 2006 and write the appropriate year,  As Coops says you have to declare all bank accounts on the form SPG mentioned, 3916.  You fill in forms 2047 and 2042. Do a search if you are unclear about these forms there were lots of threads on these topics back in April/May.

To help you in completing your tax return, when you say that you do not have any income here that is not true, you do.  Your worldwide income and that includes interest from savings and rental income has to be declared in France and your savings should not be taxed at source in the UK,  you are a French resident and you will if you breech he tax trhesholds pay tax and social charges on them in France, but you will pay tax in both countries unless you claim the tax paid back from the UK but that may be difficult if you have not told the UK that you have left the country. 

Interest on savings goes in box TS on the 2047 and carries over on to the 2042 if that is your only income.

I hope this helps. 

[/quote]

Thank you for your ,as always, kind words Ron.

I do not mind that you have no sympathy for my situation but do object to your comments that I am being economical with the truth, that that is why others have not rushed to help me.

I can see that you may find what I sais puzzling but would prefer that you ask me to explain any confusion (or even disbelief) that you have rather than saying that what I said was rubbish, when in fact it was the truth.

Setting aside the hurtfullness of you saying that I have fallen on my sword you and the other judgemental assumptions that you follow it with I thank you for the advice on what forms to use and what boxes etc to fill out.

It is a lot of strain on the remaining eye using this computer which in turn stains the injured one so I will later post further details about my situation to clarify your confusion. After my hospital appointment tomorrow I hope to buy some reading glasses and also to be in a better frame of mind to reply to your comments, it may be that they keep me in for a second operation in which case it could take a couple of weeks to reply.

To conclude Ron, I sincerely hope that you never find yourself trying to recover from a similar situation to mine, living alone in a country where you have no friends or family, whether through your own fault or just plain luck.

[Ron Avery]

JR

I apologise if you think I accused you of lying, I did not, if I was to write it again I would say that we do not appear to have the full story as your CPAM thing just does not add up as you do not mention joining the CMU , neither does your assumptions of no income in France.

As for falling on your sword, that was a way of saying what you said twice in " doing the right thing .........as in .........  it has taken an accident and a hospital stay (see the health section) to shake me into doing the right thing and visiting L'Hotel des impots to do a tax declaration.

If you have any concerns about your tax forms feel free as others have done to PM me.

[Chancer]

Thank you Ron.

I promise to post here very soon full details of my admittedly unusual situation of having a social security number 'at least that is what they told me it is) to use to claim remboursements without having a carte vitale and sadly (for me[:)]) a mutuelle or CMU.

It is a long story which my eye(s) is just not up to at the moment, when I read my words after posting I am applade at how mant typos there are that I cannot see in this small message font.

I will also explain where I have been since leaving UK, it was all around the worls but definitely not UK or France, a   nd explain why I assumed no income in frnace, I should have said from france, and at what stage I considered myself (OK retrospectively) to be resident here. It is by no menas a black and white situation but one where we have to see the grey area between.

I will take you up on your kind offer of PM re the forms if I have any problems. I hope to post again soon but it may be some while if I have to stay at the hospital, I am actually regretting not heeding their advice to have remained there.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="J.R."]

I promise to post here very soon full details of my admittedly unusual situation of having a social security number 'at least that is what they told me it is) to use to claim remboursements without having a carte vitale and sadly (for me[:)]) a mutuelle or CMU.[/quote]

Please don't explain anything. It isn't any of our business. With what's happened to you, help should be - and is - forthcoming based on your predicament not on some judgemental reaction to what you've done - or not done - previously.

Hope things go well for you at the hospital.

[cooperlola]

Bon courage, JR.  As Catalpa says, the details are really none of our business and irrelevant.  Whatever help you need, I'm sure we'll all try to give it to the best of our ability so just holla (never sure how you spell that, even with two functioning eyes).

Edit : As said above, if you need an accountant, PM me and I'll pass you some details.

[Clair]

Good luck J.R.

Hope all goes as well as possible for you.

[Owen]

Hello JR,

I can only wish you a swift recovery.

What I fear will not be cured is your bone headed stupidity. You required some other medical treatment a couple of years ago and asked about reimbursement via E111. Below is the advice I gave you on 15 September 2005.

"The next thing you should do is what you should have done months ago - apply for E106. The date you wish the E106 to start is effectively the date you are shedding UK residence. The date is for you to decide. The DWP have indicated that E106 would only be valid until the end of the year. But even if you choose say, a date in January 2006 you must still apply for it. And for this reason. Sooner or later you will have to apply for cover under CMU legislation and it is almost certain CPAM will ask for E106. If you do not have one they are unlikely to accept an application under residence criteria. But if you have applied for E106, been refused by DWP and can show that letter of rejection, the application under residence criteria can be processed".

You clearly ignored this.

As far as your tax return is concerned the best bet is to seek the assistance of your local "Hotel des Impots". It is even possible they have a member of staff dedicated to the affairs of expatriates. Allowances that can be offset against rental income are slightly different than the UK and of course the French and UK tax years differ. But once you have completed a French one (2044) under supervision it is easy in subsequent years.

For Ron. Under certain circumstances some CPAM offices will issue a social security number, usually a temporary one, purely on production of a European Health Insurance Card.

Regards

Owen

pjowen@expathealthdirect.co.uk

[Ron Avery]

Owen

JR will still have to do a 2047 and 2042 for his interest income, 2044? I might be wrong but I thought the 2044 was only for French generated property income, maybe somebody who completes one ( I don't) can clarify.

[Sunday Driver]

Form 2047 Déclaration des Revenus Encaissées a l'Etranger, Section III Revenus Fonciers states - "Souscrivez une déclaration des revenus fonciers No 2044".

So the tax office seem to have got it right.....[;-)]

 

[Owen]

Hello Ron,

Yes he will have to complete 2047 and 2042. I had to complete 2044 in respect of UK property income and the net revenue was also entered on the 2047 and 2042.

Regards

Owen

pjowen@expathealthdirect.co.uk

[Chancer]

Thank you all for your PM,s the reply function didnt seem to work. I have to return to hospital this afternoon for an "operation d,urgence" and will be detiened for at least the rest of the week dpendant on the outcome.

I will post agin and reply to all your supportive PM,s when I return with hopefully better vision.

[Dick Smith]

Well you won't read this for a while, then, but I hope all went well.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Owen"]Hello JR, I can only wish you a swift recovery. What I fear will not be cured is your bone headed stupidity. [/quote]

 

Qwen

I am in fact very thabnkfull that it was my bone head that prevented the shrapnel from continyi,g its journey through my brain.

When I return form hosptial and am able to post chapter and verse of my situation (finacial and residential) to date, i hope that yu and perhaps others with the benefit of hindsight would not actually hve posted some of the things that you did.

Thnak you again to those who have sent messages of support, I will reply but the system or my computer wont let me at the moment

 

PS the typios that I am so embarrasesed about, i can see in the posting but are too small to see and correct in the editting or posting boxes are mainly caused by my recent change to an azertry keyboard.

[Russethouse]

Hope it all goes well JR, we'll be thinking of you.

[cooperlola]

A tip for you JR when you return (as I guess you're "indisposed" at present.)  When you type your replies, change the font size to maximum (6) -  left hand box under "Message" -nice and big and easy for you to read.  They'll look huge to us too but who cares? And anyway, you can change the font size back once you've checked for typos and before you post.