Healthcare percentage

[Athene]

When you first register with CPAM there is a wait whilst the E121s are being processed before you get your Carte Vitale and numbers. When you first arrive in France you have not filed any tax forms, so how do they know how much health entitlement to credit you with? Also if you do not get an entitlement acredited, how can you take up a 'complimentaire' to top up?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Jonzjob]

Contact Gaye Galiver at BIBA ( British Insurarance Brokers Aquitaine), 05.53.01.13.84. She will be able to help with a definative answer for you question. Tell her that John F from the Aude told her. Nowt in it for me, I am just a very satisfied customer!!!

[BJSLIV]

When you first arrive in France

You provide evidence based on your earnings elsewhere, in the UK for example. However in most cases people will be covered by E forms from the UK, obviating the need for contributions for a while, which gives you time to get into the French bureaucracy .

[Ron Avery]

You will get a paper attestation from day 1 of registering at CPAM and also reimbursements,  in fact the attestation is more important than your carte vitale.  The carte vitale is the means to effect payments, in some situations like having X rays you may still need to produce your attestation, which gives your entitlements

With an E 121 you are exempt from paying into the French Healthcare system.  If you had an E 106 you are exempt for up to two years, by that time people have normally done a tax return, however, for reference, if you do not have initial cover by an E form you have do a signed attestation of income for the previous year with supporting evidence like P60s etc 

Once you have a paper attestation which gives you your numbers you can get a mutuelle, there are lots and you must take the attestation with you.  I find Groupama very good value for money and quick with repayments, others will recommend others no doubt.

[Gastines]

Having now reached retirement and at last getting the E121. I thought that this made some difference to your overall mutuelle payments. The very helpful lady in CPAM,St.Malo actually phoned our mutuelle to make doubly sure for us but it remains the same. Basically no change on our payments although the UK now pick up 30% of something?

Regards.

[Ron Avery]

Other way round, UK pays for 60 -70% of something, ie cost.  The Mutuelle continues to cover the other 40 - 30% for most things,  but not all.

[Golfclan]

I shall be 58 when I move to France next year from Ireland.   Assuming that I get a E106 and it covers me for a max of 2 years will I then have to pay charges when I am 60?  Or does the fact that I will be at the French retirement age mean that I will not have to pay despite the fact that my state pension will not kick in until I am 65/66?

[BJSLIV]

You stop paying contributions once you are in receipt of the State Pension from your country of origin..

[cooperlola]

BJSLIV What happens when you are piggy-backed onto your o/h's E-form, do you know?  I am seven years younger than my o/h.  At present we contribute to the French system - our E106 having expired now.  I was, though, piggy-backed onto his before it ran out.  When my o/h gets his UK state pension - are both our healthcare costs covered by the UK then, or just his until I get to my UK state pensionable age?  (Hope you can figure out what I'm getting at from this convoluted question.)

[mint]

Cooperlola

This is something I do know about.  My OH has reached retirement age but I haven't.  What has happened is that because I am officially his dependant (or his "beneficiare, nicer word), I do not have to make contributions.  In effect, I get all the benefits to which he is entitled.

Of course, I pay the top-up which is a completely different, if related, matter.  

[cooperlola]

Whoopee, Sweet 17.  Thanks very much.  That'll be one less bill then. 

[Logan]

Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself. You become an appendage on the form E121 and will receive a Carte Vital in your own name.

Woops.. a bit slow in answering this, someone beat me to it!

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Logan"]

Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself. You become an appendage on the form E121 and will receive a Carte Vital in your own name.

Woops.. a bit slow in answering this, someone beat me to it!

[/quote]

Yes and woops again , what you have posted is just not true. I do wish people would stop trotting this myth out, its no wonder posters are confused.

A woman will only receive an E121 at 60 if she receives a state pension at 60 and you only get that if you have paid a full class A stamp.  If not then you will only get an E121 in your own right when you receive your state OA pension which for B rate stamp payers will be aged 65.

 There is no god given right to piggybacking on an older or sick partner's E121 either, you have to be a dependent and the decision as to if you are is with the French CPAM not the UK pensions people.

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Golfclan"]I shall be 58 when I move to France next year from Ireland.   Assuming that I get a E106 and it covers me for a max of 2 years will I then have to pay charges when I am 60?  Or does the fact that I will be at the French retirement age mean that I will not have to pay despite the fact that my state pension will not kick in until I am 65/66?
[/quote]

You may not get an automatic E 106 from Ireland.  Friends here who lived in Ireland for many years before coming to France did not get an E 106 as they had not paid NI in the UK.  Best to check with the Irish health authoroties as the Republic of Ireland aappears not to have the same arangements as the UK.

If you do not receive a state pension in Ireland at age 60 you will have to pay health care charges in France until you do.

[cooperlola]

[:-))]

Waaa, you're right, Ron, we do get confused!  I guess I just have to wait until Mr C reaches 65 to find out.  I'll report back in 7 years then and let you know.

[allanb]

[quote user="Logan"]Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself. You become an appendage on the form E121 and will receive a Carte Vital in your own name.[/quote]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]...what you have posted is just not true....

A woman will only receive an E121 at 60 if she receives a state pension at 60 and you only get that if you have paid a full class A stamp.  If not then you will only get an E121 in your own right when you receive your state OA pension which for B rate stamp payers will be aged 65.

There is no god given right to piggybacking on an older or sick partner's E121 either, you have to be a dependent and the decision as to if you are is with the French CPAM not the UK pensions people.[/quote]

I don't think my wife and I have a problem here, but I am certainly confused by the discussion. 

I paid voluntary contributions during many years of employment outside the UK.  My wife has never paid UK contributions except for a short period in her distant youth (but because of that she does have a UK NI number).  She received a UK state pension from age 60; the letter from the Pension Service said "this is based on your spouse's insurance."  At the same time she received an E121, and she subsequently obtained her own carte vitale, still while aged 60.

I don't think she would like to be called an "appendage", but - using Logan's terminology - it looks as though that's what she is.

[Ron Avery]

Yes Allan, the key for a woman to receive an E 121 is receiving a state pension, not getting to age 60.

[Logan]

My use of the word appendage was solely in an administrative sense. Ron’s advice runs contrary to the information I have been given by DSS in UK and CPAM. The rules which govern these arrangements are written in the EU treaty of Maastricht. You can find it on line if you have a couple of days to spare. The treaty laid down the rules which would regulate cross boarder national insurance and medical care for EU citizens. My point is that CPAM and UK DSS must follow the treaty arrangements and not pick and choose. If a EU citizen is in receipt of a state pension or some disability benefits then a form E121 is issued to allow for medical care in another member state. Obviously age and eligibility to state pension go hand in hand. The exception is the others spouse. They receive as a RIGHT an inclusion on the form E121. Dependence has nothing to do with it. A means test would be needed.

[Ron Avery]

 "Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself"

"Obviously age and eligibility to state pension go hand in hand"

 No they don't,  that is what you posted earlier and its not correct.  A woman is not exempt from paying into the CMU at age 60, you only get an age related  E 121 when you get a pension, and if you paid a B rate stamp that will be at age 65 for a woman.

  The advice about eligibility for  piggybacking on an E 121 was from UK W & P it may be true for a IB related one that it is automatic but don't see why it should be, but its certainly not the case where the partner is much younger than the pension receiver, EU conventions or not, particularly where the younger person is clearly not dependent and that is the key word.

[mint]

Ron

I don't know whether I was just lucky or what.  When we had our interview with the CPAM, nobody tried to establish whether I was a "dependant" or not.  As explained in my earlier post, I am not yet of retirement age though my OH is.

We had a letter from the UK W&P to take to the CPAM.  The letter showed both our names, dates of birth, etc.  The CPAM woman looked at the letter, our passports, all the other bumpf and then immediately gave us 2 forms to fill in should we need to see a doctor or receive other medical attention before the carte vitale came through.  She explained that it could take a few weeks. 

Within about 2 months, perhaps sooner, we got our EHIC and then, a month after that our Carte Vitale.  I specified "our" because only my husband's name appears on it but my name appears on the Attestation alongside his.

I have been to the doctor twice and visited the pharmacy for my prescription and there were no queries and certainly no obstruction of any sort.  I haven't made any special study of this, only going by my own recent experience

[Logan]

OK Ron I accept that women who reach 60 do not always receive a pension. However they must have made NO class A contributions in their working life. Even just a few years contribution will qualify for a pension of some kind. You are correct that 'qualifying for a pension' is the necessary criteria for an E121 but once done if she happens to be married to a younger man they both will receive free medical benefits in France, even if the younger man is not dependent. I don't understand where the word dependency has come from in this context. Perhaps you can explain. I think dependance in this instance means living together not financially dependent.

[Ron Avery]

"However they must have made NO class A contributions in their working life. Even just a few years contribution will qualify for a pension of some kind"

.

Money  >  Special reports  >  Pensions in crisis

Women lose in pensions scandal says minister

Sarah Hall and Peter Hetherington
Thursday October 21, 2004
The Guardian

The new secretary of state for work and pensions yesterday described the women's pensions crisis as a "national scandal" as he reiterated his support for a more generous basic state pension scheme.

Alan Johnson, who took up his cabinet post six weeks ago, told the Commons work and pensions committee that a "universal pension", which would not be tied to National Insurance contributions, would be one way of tackling "a real and substantial problem".

"Women's pensions are in a sense a national scandal," he said. "Only 50% of women get the basic state pension." He said women had been penalised because of the expectation they would take time out from the workplace to be carers, and the enormous change in the employment market since the basic state pension was introduced 56 years ago.

[chessfou]

[quote]Even just a few years contribution will qualify for a pension of some kind.[/quote][Logan]

It's a bit more than "just a few". 9 years is the absolute minimum - that qualifies for 27% of the standard rate basic State Pension = £23.57 per week. A magnificent £1.2k p.a.

[Hagar]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

 "Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself"

[/quote]

Don't know how many people are aware of it but this has now changed. Depending on her year of birth a woman's retiment age can be anything between 60 and 68. The worst year to be borne is probably 1959. For women borne in that year her retirement age, and subsequent entitlement to a state pension,  is now 65 years plus a few months (depends on exact DoB), whereas at this time last year it was 60.

rgds

Hagar 

[cooperlola]

I don't know where the 68 comes from, Hagar.  Actually my own year of birth is pretty bad - 1955.  As I understand these changes, they are being altered from 60 to 65 by one year, for everybody born after 1950.  Hence : Born 1950, pensionable at 60; 1951, at 61; 1952 at 62; 1953 at 63; 1954 at 64; 1955 or later, at 65.  I have certainly been officially informed that I will receive my state pension (happily, I'm fully paid up as I contributed without a gap - being wary of relying solely on my o/h's contributions) at 65.[:@]

Edit : There is a form which you can fill in (CA3664), and the IR will provide you with a pension forecast, if you are in any doubt about when you will qualify and for how much.