L'hotel Des Impots

[Suninfrance]

I am now about the go into fits of manic laughter at the incompetence of our local tax office.

Had a huge issue with them last year because they lost our tax form even though it was filled in at their office.  Unfortunately we didn't take a copy, but then after another  visit, they said they didn't  want one because we had no income in France and told us to fill one out in England which of course we couldn't do because we live in France and have done for the last 3 years.  They seem not to be able to get to grips with the fact that we are living off the money from the sale of house in England and that is why we don't currently work here in France.

Anyway - rant over.

Diligently filled one in this year, at their offices with a member of their staff, copy taken and a receipt given and this morning we have received a letter telling us they haven't received it.

Is it just us?  This means yet another trip to their offices (fuel costs and time) with copy of the copy and a copy of the receipt.

Arrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!

Jan

[cooperlola]

Sounds like ours!  After the first year of problem-free tax paying ours last year suddenly decided that we owed no tax here in France.  After several frustrating visits, they finally agreed with us and sent us a tax bill (which we had to pay in one lump, because we had missed the direct debit deadline, thanks to them.)

This year I did my tax return on line, and have kept the "electronic signature" to prove it.  But they now have a "computer problem" so our Avis is still awaited.  We're wondering which way they'll go this year and look forward to another load of trips back and forth...

[allanb]

Cooperlola: if you filed your declaration on line, I think you'll find that you can see your avis d'impôts on line as well, assuming that it's been issued.  (Assuming that their "computer problem" doesn't get in your way.)

I found this out by accident: my avis hasn't arrived yet by mail, so I went on line to see what I could find, and there it was.

[cooperlola]

Allan, yes, I did try this method and sadly, no it hasn't worked.  I don't know if there's anybody else who uses the Mamers office who is having similar problems?

[woolybanana]

What on earth do you expect? You have been trying to hand in your tax form at a local hotel and the receptionist was too nice to tell you. Take it to the tax BUREAU.  (Yes D from Scunthorpe now living in Mantagne-sous-Volcan, I am being serious, lots of Brits make this mistake. What they don't realise is that the staff are too nice and courteous and embarrassed to tell them.)

[cooperlola]

[quote user="woolybanana"]What on earth do you expect? You have been trying to hand in your tax form at a local hotel and the receptionist was too nice to tell you. Take it to the tax BUREAU.  (Yes D from Scunthorpe now living in Mantagne-sous-Volcan, I am being serious, lots of Brits make this mistake. What they don't realise is that the staff are too nice and courteous and embarrassed to tell them.)[/quote]Did that one escape from the old jokes' home?

[Suninfrance]

I can assure you WoolyB that the staff our our tax office are far from nice and courteous.  Just too arrogant and obnoxious to tell us anything different.  How come though, most of our other English friends have had no problems at all with the same office?

[woolybanana]

Well, I have dealt with that kind for a hundred years it seems. Do you smile, wag your tails, speak French, defer to them, complement the ladies on their moustaches, sympathize with them about overwork, that bùùùùùù Sarkozy etc? Works a treat. Worship at their feet?

[londoneye]

Did you get your Avis yet Cooperlola, because myself and OH are still awaiting ours, and since it will be our first, I am not sure when to start doing something about it, or whether to continue waiting.

Anyone else in 87 who hasn't yet received???

 

[cooperlola]

No we haven't Londoneye, but then the e-mail which I got from my CPAM said that we "would probably" get it in September.

If I were you, I'd be inclined to contact them, for peace of mind, if nothing else.  No e-mail address for you that I can find I'm afraid.

http://www.cpam87.fr/SiteWeb/carte/accueil.htm

[Suninfrance]

Visited the unpleasant man at the tax office again armed with a copy of our declaration (which they apparently never received) and a copy of the receipt.

He pulled out our file and there was our declaration along with last year's declaration which he denied having last year.  So that is two years now where our declaration has been filled in and they have just sat in a folder on his desk.

It appears from another piece of paper from our bank in England that the address does not correspond with our address in France and this is because our Internet banking will not accept a French address, so we use a postal address for this which they are quite happy with (but not Mr Taxman).  The paperwork the tax office applied for from our French bank states that we opened the account in 2002 (which we did) using our old address in England, but this has not been updated which we did in 2004 when we came here permanently.  Mr Taxman then told us he did not believe we lived in France permanently because of English addresses on our bank accounts.

Now why, or am I expecting too much, did he not send a letter asking for further information on our French bank account, or clarification of our English account, or proof of ownership of Carte Vitale or our EDF bills from when we started to live here.  Why did he send a letter saying they had not received our forms when clearly they had.  All he could say was that he did not believe us.

All we want to do is pay our b****y tax and you would have thought they'd have bent over backwards to rake it in.

Aaaarrrghhhhhhhh

[Poppy]

Jan, we had the same problem for the same reasons then suddenly we were summoned to take all our worldly papers. We were interrogated for 4 hours, it honestly was a nightmare. National Savings who we had an Income Bond at the time had kindly informed UK Inland  Revenue that the interest for the year was £750,000.00  very clever investment as maximum capital allowed was £250,000.00 The nice tax lady only informed us of this at the end of the interrogation and I  burst out laughing saying but we live in a caravan. Her response was 'how did you pay for the caravan?' We were told to return within 7 days with the answers to lots of questions she raised. We had to contact our french bank for some of the answers and our bank manager said he would accompany us on the next visit disguised as our neighbour/interpretor. He was absolutely disgusted at the way we were treated  and when tax lady said we had 7 days to prove we had not received the interest he contacted the banks lawyers. Their advice to us was to pack up and leave the country before we got put in jail!!!!!!!

In the meantime the French bank account was seized by the French tax . Obviously I had been in touch with everybody and his gran but the response from National Savings was 'we never make a mistake' to which I responded in that case I'll have a cheque for £750,000.00 today please. I was then told not to be silly, I then exploded and rang every 5 mins demanding my cheque. Obviously it was resolved,but we end up paying interest on tax and social charges as late payment for the years we had tried to pay. 

Sorry to go on a bit but just trying to reassure you that in the end common sense will win. Perhaps you could ask to see the manager at the Tax Office and ask your bank manager if he can confirm you have been resident since 2004.

Our Tax lady was called Madam A.Sole honestly [:D]

[mint]

Poppy

Don't know much about this as we have only lived here for 5 months but I am now warned as to what may happen.  It sounds so horrendous that I just want to let you know you have my sympathy.

I just hope to God the "authorities" catch up with the cheats I have mentioned on another thread.  Not that that would help you but at least I would feel that there is some justice in this world (although I know in my heart of hearts that there is no such thing)

[Suninfrance]

Good grief Poppy - I bet you were mad.  Did you pack up and leave the country?

I was talking to my French teacher today about it as she has also had a run in with the guy.  Took them a year to sort it out simply because of her English husband's pension payments.  She is French so she knows the rules.  When I told her what happened she suggested I wrote to Sarkozy to get the man sacked.  Unfortunately the guy we seem to be dealing with is "Le Controlleur", so not much chance of seeing HIS manager.  We did take down the address and e-mail address of the Concilliator though.

We have made so many trips to Brive (about three quarters of an hour away) to try and sort this out, but all we get is a slimy grin (which I want to slap off his face) and more questions.  Why can't the man just tell us exactly what he wants from us.  One of our neighbours is the son of the deputy mayor here, so maybe I'll ask his dad to come along and translate as he speaks English.

I think our problem is that we are not particulary gregorious people and like to keep ourselves to ourselves.  This means that we haven't spent countless hours at the Mairie making enquiries or mixing in with the sparse locals.  We just get on with our renovations and meet up with mainly English people.  We do have French friends, but they too like to keep themselves to themselves.  Although Nadine (Nadge) our closest neighbour does like to let her hair down now and then.

We are currently putting together a file of everything we think nasty taxman might want and we will camp out in his office until he accepts that we ARE living permanently in France and we are NOT trying to defraud the system, and that the reason we keep our money in England is because the French bank interest rates are rubbish.  We've got another 9 years til OH retires and another 14 for me, so our "sale of house in England" money might look a lot on paper, but it's got to last us at least until OH retires.

Last year, when nasty taxman wouldn't believe OH about our lack of income in England and in France, he hauled him in front of his colleagues at Taxe d'habitation and demanded to know how we could live in France in a "one room ruin".  The details they had on their computer went back, I think, to the 1950s and no-one had declared any renovations or development since then.  Now we seem to be paying for that.  The house had 4 rooms when we brought it and still has 4 rooms - we just knocked down a couple and built them elsewhere.

I was so angry went we finished our "interview" with nasty taxman that when he went to shake my hand as we left, I just glared at him and left the room without even an au revoir.  My language was not very ladylike after we left his office.

So yet another trip to Brive armed with suitcases full of every single bit of paperwork he might want and IF he wants it, he can damn well photocopy it himself at his expense and we won't leave until he has.

Phew - ranting again.  Sorry

Jan

[Poppy]

No Jan we didnt leave the country. The situation seemed so unreal and unfair that we were determined to battle it out. Stick with it and just keep insisting every 5 minutes that you submit tax returns here. Tell them it is illegal for you not to pay tax here.  Bon courage

[Suninfrance]

Good on you Poppy.  We plan to stick it out.  Nasty taxman told us last year to "go back to England and pay your tax there".  Methinks he is anti-brit.  Ce la vie.

We'll get there in the end, it's just good to have rant now and then.

No doubt I will be posting on this subject again after our next visit to the the taxman.

Jan

[Jazzer]

I am sure someone else has been in this situation. Previous to our permanent move to France we submitted a return for our gite to Paris( Centre for Non residents). When I took our return for 2006 into th Hotel des Impots I wsas advised that both returns had to  be submitted to Paris, together with the British refund forms and then they would be sent to my  local Hotel des Impots., after their files had been amended. I have not yet received an avis, Would the foregoing delay matters? Also when does the tx have to be paid?

[chloe123]

Completed our first tax return in May and have now received an Avis D'Impot - Impot sur les Revenus. What does this document mean please and what do we do with it? Thanks.

[Clair]

The document tells you how much tax you have to pay, based on your declared world wide earnings in 2006.

It is an important document. Keep it forever, do not give it away or throw it away.

[Sunday Driver]

In many respects, the easiest way is not to get involved in discussions with people at the tax office in the first place. 

Just ask them for the forms (or download them from the impots website), take them home, fill them in and sign them, then send them off by post.  The tax office clerks will just input the details to the system and file the forms away.  You are not required to supply any supporting documents such as bank statements, pay slips, etc, but you need to retain them in case of query

That's what everyone else in France does...[;-)]

 

[cooperlola]

It worked for me, until last year when the tax office decided I was not liable for tax here (having just signed an FD5 to the effect that I was!) - then discussions became inevitable.

In fact, our tax lady is lovely and very helpful.  It's just the guy on the "help" desk who's the pain.  He really should get a job as a doctor's receptionist in the UK.  He insists on interogating us every time before he lets us see the woman who know what she's on about.

[suein56]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

In fact, our tax lady is lovely and very helpful.  It's just the guy on the "help" desk who's the pain.  He insists on interogating us every time before he lets us see the woman who know what she's on about.[/quote]

It sounds like he thinks he should be doing her job - jealously is a dreadful emotion.

Sue