cartref Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hi,Hope someone can help me here. I am a 60 year old single person in receipt of 2 private pensions and UK State Pension All these add up to a gross amount of £12109 per annum. Can anyone tell me what tax/NI I should expect to pay in France on this amount? I am getting several letters from UK Inland Revenue at present changing my tax code because of a shortfall in what tax I have paid since April 2007.[6] Thanks in advancecartref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesLauriers Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 £12109 @ 1.40€/£ = 16952€ on which you would pay 875€ in tax and 85€ in social charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 If you are living in France then why are you paying UK tax on the pensions in the first place? You should be submitting a French rax return and not paying UK tax unless they are government pensions (Police, HM forces etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 [quote user="cartref"]Hi,Hope someone can help me here. I am a 60 year old single person in receipt of 2 private pensions and UK State Pension All these add up to a gross amount of £12109 per annum.[/quote]Are these all paid in the UK? If so some are taxable at source I believe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 [quote user="groslard"][quote user="cartref"]Hi,Hope someone can help me here. I am a 60 year old single person in receipt of 2 private pensions and UK State Pension All these add up to a gross amount of £12109 per annum.[/quote]Are these all paid in the UK? If so some are taxable at source I believe..[/quote]If your pensions are truly private and not as Bob T points out above paid as a result of working for the UK Government and you are also fiscally resident in France (i e your principal residence is here) then you must declare them and pay tax in France and not the UK.There is no mechanism for taxing a UK State Retirement Pension at source so this is effectively paid gross to you and it is then taken into account when your overall tax liability is calculated by HMRC.You don't say when you took up permanent residence in France but once you make a tax declaration in France (and if this will be your first year of doing so you will make this in May 2008 for your 2007 income) there is then a mechanism for reclaiming the tax you have paid in the UK since you became tax resident in France. This is explained on many threads in the Finance section but if you can't find the topic, come back and it can be explained to you.Incidentially your UK State Retirement Pension must also be declared in France from when you became resident and it will be taxed together with your other income by the French authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartref Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 All replies very welcomed, thanks. All pensions are from UK and as I have only lived in France for 4 months, I believe that I have to register in early 2008 for French Tax purposes. It also seems that I shall be somewhat better off paying tax in France than the UK [:)]. I have also received and completed my forms to send to both sets of tax offices so that any refunds can be forwarded. Should I be aware of anything else?thankscartref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 [quote user="cartref"] Should I be aware of anything else?thankscartref[/quote]You sound very well sorted cartref. The only one point I would add is that you give both the English and French language copies of the FD5 to your French tax office and they then forward the English language version to the Overseas Residents department of HMRC. Expect to wait a considerable amount of time (between five and 12 months) for the refunds from the UK tax authorities.The reason I gave the detail that I did was that a previous poster was suggesting that certain income sources did not need declaring, which from the details you were giving, was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 [quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="cartref"The reason I gave the detail that I did was that a previous poster was suggesting that certain income sources did not need declaring, which from the details you were giving, was incorrect.[/quote]I don't see any posts suggesting that.My UK pension ( not Old Age) is taxed at source in the UKI declare it with my French tax return so it is taken into account for the "revenu fiscale de référence" which is used among other things to decide if you have to pay taxe d'habitation.Although your income tax may work out lower than in the UK, don't forget you will have to pay CSG on your private pensions, which adds to the total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Just a quick point regarding the figures provided by Leslauriers.If you are not registered for heathcare under CMU (ie, you're here under a temporary E106) then you are exempt from the 85€ social charge on your pensions. Not a lot, but better in your pocket....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 [quote user="groslard"][quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="cartref" The reason I gave the detail that I did was that a previous poster was suggesting that certain income sources did not need declaring, which from the details you were giving, was incorrect.[/quote]I don't see any posts suggesting that.My UK pension ( not Old Age) is taxed at source in the UKI declare it with my French tax return so it is taken into account for the "revenu fiscale de référence" which is used among other things to decide if you have to pay taxe d'habitation.Although your income tax may work out lower than in the UK, don't forget you will have to pay CSG on your private pensions, which adds to the total[/quote]If your UK pension (not Old Age) is not a 'government' pension then it is taxable in France, not just declarable.CSG is not levied on foreign pensions, only CRDS - and only if you are registered for heathcare under the CMU. If you have an E-form or your own private health insurance, then there are no social charges on pensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Wouldn't some one with a UK Old Age pension have a E121 permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartref Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Just wondered what CSG is? I am actually registered with CPAM with a mutuelle in situ also. I checked out my tax via UK and it was much much more than leslauriers worked out. i.e. 20% in UK, only 5.5% in France. At present my 2 private pensions are taxed in the UK. One is the SERPS via Scottish Provident, one is with the Pru. 85€ in social charges is much better than 142GBP though.cartref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Are you saying that people on a E121 don't pay any social charges anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 If you have an E-form or your own private health insurance, then there are no social charges on foreign earned income and pensions. However, unearned income attracts CSG/CRDS/PS at 11% regardless of your heathcare status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groslard Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Thanks!I suppose it all comes down to the sort of pension you have: an annuity might be considered unearned income I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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