Can I postpone paying French tax for another year?

[Ian]

I've just realised that French tax returns have to be in by 31st May. Only four days away, and as it's the first time for me, I'm daunted by the task. I can try and complete them by then, but do I have to? Was I a resident last year, or have I only just become resident?

The facts are (your honour):

A.We bought our house last September, but it took three months of work before it was habitable.

B. We still have a house in the UK, with all the bills in my name.

C. We're still paying tax in the UK.

D. We have only just (this month) de-registered from the NHS and registered with CPAM.

E. My car is still registered and insured in the UK (though I'm going through the process of changing that)

F. Errr... that's it.

On the basis of these, can I (realistically) hold of for another 12 months?

TIA

[cooperlola]

It has more to do with where you were living before your house was habitable, than when you bought it.  If you were living in a caravan on site, for instance, then you were resident in France and should fill in the tax form.  If, however, you were still living in the UK until the end of the year while the work was being done, then you don't need to do your tax form until next year.

[dr orloff]

Did you make any return trips to the UK?  If you did then the point at which you became French resident would be pretty difficult to prove - it would depend on your intentions and you could pretty much choose the date you want.

If you didn't, then from a practical perspective - how much income would be taxable in France? (I don't wish to know but it's a question to ask yourself).  If it's cacahouettes then, given you had a UK base, I don't see much risk in postoponing a declaration.

If neither of the above apply then either:

Risk it.  For the authorities to investigate given the circumstances you outline is, in my view, pretty unlikely.  Others will tell you that all your movements have been recorded and monitored and they know you have lived here since last September. Or,

Summarise your income from the date of your arrival to the end of the year, pop along to the tax office and a nice inspector will help you fill in a form there and then.  If you need to know whether or not your income is taxable in France then feel free to ask.

 

 

[mickleover]

[quote user="Ian"]I've just realised that French tax returns have to be in by 31st May. Only four days away, and as it's the first time for me, I'm daunted by the task. I can try and complete them by then, but do I have to? Was I a resident last year, or have I only just become resident?

The facts are (your honour):

A.We bought our house last September, but it took three months of work before it was habitable.

B. We still have a house in the UK, with all the bills in my name.

C. We're still paying tax in the UK.

D. We have only just (this month) de-registered from the NHS and registered with CPAM.

E. My car is still registered and insured in the UK (though I'm going through the process of changing that)

F. Errr... that's it.

On the basis of these, can I (realistically) hold of for another 12 months?

TIA

[/quote]

Have you received a tax form ?

                                               if not you cannot fillit in.

[cooperlola]

You only receive a tax form in the second year - the first one is your responsibility to get for yourself.

But on the whole, I tend to agree with Dr Orloff - in the situation as described, I doubt whether you will be jumped upon if you make the date of arrival some time in early '08.  But generally, it's to your advantage to pay tax here (as you obviously plan to do) as it can work out a heck of a lot cheaper.

[dr orloff]

It can also work out more expensive with that dratted CSG.

[mickleover]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

You only receive a tax form in the second year - the first one is your responsibility to get for yourself.

  But generally, it's to your advantage to pay tax here (as you obviously plan to do) as it can work out a heck of a lot cheaper.

[/quote]

Encore

[cooperlola]

[quote user="dr orloff"]It can also work out more expensive with that dratted CSG.[/quote]Much depends on your income and how you earn it.  However, I did a tax estimate for a couple of friends of mine yesterday, and the difference in tax between the two countries is something in the region of 2,000€ (in France's favour)!  The differences are much bigger if one partner earns (say, a pension) and the other doesn't, as the tax allowances for couples are so much higher here.

But then again, if you're living off investments etc then the social charges can, as you say, be really hefty.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="mickleover"]

Have you received a tax form ?

                                               if not you cannot fillit in.

[/quote]

Oh... if life were ever so simple. [:-))]

Ian - have your formally announced to anyone that you are now resident in France? Your Mairie, Notaire, Tax Office... etc? If not, you could choose a date from when you consider you were permanent residents. That's between you and your conscience but you could choose this month as that's when you changed health regimes.

When we moved in July 2004, we tried to get tax forms from the tax office the following February / March - following advice on here. The tax office were not the slightest bit interested in our 6 months of 2004 at that time and when we persisted that we really should be completing a tax return, they got quite irritable and told us bluntly to go away, that we should present 2004 figures when we completed 2005 tax year in 2006. Which is what we did. If I interpret your dates correctly, this attitude might apply to you.

Most tax offices are quite helpful so decide on your Official Arrival Date and go and ask whether you should be completing a return. That should at least get you into the system for next year. If you are still paying tax in the UK, there's a form you can download from one of the UK government sites which announces you are no longer resident in the UK and should start to extract you from the British tax system. If that's what your circumstances require.

[Ian]

Folks, I appreciate the advice.

No, we've notified no-one formally that we're resident, apart from CPAM, and yes, we've been back a couple of times since September, so it would seem that I may slip under their radar. For the sake of a few months one way or the other, I think I'll go with 1st March as the nominal date of our "residency" - this matches the date on the E121. I'll be better prepared next year.

Thanks for all the help.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

You only receive a tax form in the second year - the first one is your responsibility to get for yourself.

[/quote]

Not always so.  We received ours last year (the first time we were due to declare) in a hand written envelope, much to our surprise![:D]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Maricopa"][quote user="cooperlola"]

You only receive a tax form in the second year - the first one is your responsibility to get for yourself.

[/quote]

Not always so.  We received ours last year (the first time we were due to declare) in a hand written envelope, much to our surprise![:D]

[/quote]Crikey, they're on the ball down your way.