Water Heater

[lacemakers]

Hi

We have just bought a house in Tarn which has a very old bottle-gas water heater for the sinks and shower. To make it compliant, the previous owner was about to knock out a vent through the 2 ft thick wall, so we asked him not to. Anyone know what the other options are? We think maybe a hot water tank in the loft with an immersion heater, but no idea how much that would cost.

[Le Plombier]

Be very careful

You say it is a very old gas water heater

The old unflued ones, if this is what you have, are potentially highly dangerous with serious risk of carbon monoxide being released within the property

If you have this type of appliance under no account use it without ventilation and close off the gas supply at night to extinguish the pilot

These appliances, whilst available even now are very restricted in their installation and use

As a registered gas installer I would always refuse to fit these gas heaters

If the appliance is flued and also maybe has a opening in to the flue at the top of the heater it is more acceptable but still requires ventilation

If you do not want a vent through the wall then fit a balanced flue gas heater, this draws fresh air from ouside through the outer skin of the twin wall flue and no supplementary ventilation is necessary. They are very safe appliances 

Alternatively go for some other form of water heating

Le Plombier

[Anton Redman]

The simplest and in the short term cheapest solution is a electric French hotwater cylinder. As these are under mains pressure they can be any in the house but it is a good idea to keep the hotwater runs as short as possible . Depending in space and drainage the can be in the loft or as was the case in our first house the cellar. Without pipe and cable runs about € 250.

Agree totally with the comment about carbon monoxide above.

[lacemakers]

Merci M Le Plombier

We had no intention of using it! It just looks like a death trap! There is a flue which goes into the attic, but no signs of it emerging through the roof.

Think some form of electric option is best for us. But don't know what that is yet. 

[lacemakers]

Hi Anton

 

Your idea sounds like a good option. Should I get a professional plumber to put this in? I am no DIY expert. Guess I should enquire about a local plumbr through the maire?

[Anton Redman]

If you have never plumbed before and gave no desire to learn I would strongly recommend a professional. However I would think through all the changes I wanted to the plumbing and have it done as one large job. Connections to new shower ruooms etc can have isolating valves fitted untill you ready to install the whole room. 

[cooperlola2]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

The simplest and in the short term cheapest solution is a electric French hotwater cylinder. [/quote]

Be aware that these seem to my very inexpert eye to be a much better product than the hot-water tank/immersion heater found in British homes. You won't find immersion heater jackets in French DIY shops - the cylinder comes double-skinned, and is cold to the touch even when full of hot water! A fit-and-forget item in our experience - so far!

[Chancer]

[quote user="cooperlola2"][quote user="Anton Redman"]

 [/quote]

Be aware that these seem to my very inexpert eye to be a much better product than the hot-water tank/immersion heater found in British homes. A fit-and-forget item in our experience - so far!

[/quote]

I agree a much better product but as for fit and forget? Well that depends on the leval of calcaire in your water.

For my region and most of France it is, replace and keep fingers and toes crossed whilst counting the months, to get 5 years out of one is considered  lucky.

[lacemakers]

Hi

 

Thanks for the advice. Is it possible to fit some kind of filter from the mains to stop the tank clogging up?

[Chancer]

Filter, no, magnetic thingys, no again although no end of people push them, a water softener or adoucisseur will reduce the level of calcaire and increase the life but when you factor in the cost of purchase and maintenance I only have two recommendations.

I: If you are reasonably handy and physically strong, pay attention to the installation f your new ballon and repace it yourself when it starts to leak (you will see rust traces underneath or at the joins of the casing) they cost relativlt little to buy and other than the inconvenience this is the most economic long term solution.

2: Specify a good make with an electronic control sytem and a titanium sacrificial anode such as Pacific for the maximum life expectancy.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="lacemakers"]

Hi

 Is it possible to fit some kind of filter from the mains to stop the tank clogging up?

[/quote]

Well................. There is a filter: it is called a Reverse Osmosis Filter. See here:

However the capital cost, water waste and running costs means that one is far better off to buy a good Ballon (Water Heater) and chuck it away every five years or so, as JR states.

One aspect not mentioned is electricity: the most effective way to use a Ballon is by opting for EDF's Split rate Tarrif: heures Pleine/heures Creuse.

By way of an automatic switch, the Ballon only turns on once the cheap night rate starts: and turns off when it finishes.

Your EDF Service Charge (Abonnement) will increase, however the overall cost will be far less.

 

[Anton Redman]

Examples as below :

http://www.bricodepot.fr/bordeaux/plomberie/traitement-de-l-eau

Never read a report on theit effectiveness but they did improve the quality of water for washing no end at our previous house.

[Gluestick]

There are many water filters which take out various bits and pieces, Anton.

In the UK I have a "Whole-of-House" large cartridge filter on the main riser: and a secondary dedicated drinking water tap which we uses for cooking and kettle water in the kitchen: and perhaps more critically, the ice cubes I use in my single malt!.

Years ago I experimented with various types of Activated Silver-Charcoal tap water filters.

Mainly they all filter sediments - which makes the water brighter - and do indeed remove chlorine "Taint".

Unfortunately, however, as the glass kettle we use demonstrates each and every week, these filters fail to remove the dissolved salts which cause calcification.

Heating water to the level of a Ballon, immersion, boiler or kettle simply causes the dissolved salts to precipitate out: hence the core problem.

The only way to remove undesired salts and trace elements such as heavy metals, is Reverse Osmosis: and the cheaper RO systems are not effective (Those simply using mains water pressure e.g.).

Proper RO needs significant pressure to cause the water molecules to osmote but leave behind the pollutants.

It is so effective, RO systems are used, for example, on Nuclear Subs, cruise liners and warships, to deliver pure water from salt water.

 

[lacemakers]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all that. Sorry, but it's getting a bit techo-babble for my diy skill level. Looks like a new tank every five years!

Any ideas on the best place to buy one? It's only for the shower, bathroom sink and kitchen sink (bath about three years away) so what size would be appropriate? Mr Bricolage seems a bit pricey - anywhere better?

As a real novice I very much appreciate your comments, and nobody has been rude to me yet! Thanks.

[Gluestick]

Bricodepot tend to be the cheapest in fact.

If just two of you go for a 200 litre jobbie.

That does us and son when there: three showers per day: and sometimes another in the evening.

Never run out as yet even with guests too.

As always: scope out the prices all around.

 

 

[lacemakers]

Cheers. Thanks very much. I don't know if me and the missus will be that hygenic, but there is a bricodepot just half an hour away from us. Thanks again.

[suein56]

[quote user="lacemakers"]

Looks like a new tank every five years![/quote]

Well our Atlantic (5 ans de guarantee) ballon is now almost 14 years old and still going strong - now I've said that I am sure it will fail tomorrow! - so, IMHO, spend a tad more and buy longevity.

Sue

[Chancer]

Its all dependant on the level of calcaire in your region, our soil is 99.999% chalk hence the ballons dont last, even if they dont spring a leak they fill ups with deposits, if you have ph neutral water then your cylinder could last for centuries.

[suein56]

[quote user="J.R gone native"]if you have ph neutral water then your cylinder could last for centuries.[/quote]

Ahh, don't know what our ph is but that is probably why it has lasted so long.

Sue

[Charlotte3]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Bricodepot tend to be the cheapest in fact.

If just two of you go for a 200 litre jobbie.

That does us and son when there: three showers per day: and sometimes another in the evening.

Never run out as yet even with guests too.

As always: scope out the prices all around.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Why 200 litres?    Chez nous:  family of four, 50lt tank, never run out of hot water yet.....of course if you waste lots of water every day on unnecessary showering.....

Aly, peintre en batiment