Living in France for one year

[pinkcat1771]

Hi, Can anyone tell me how we can live in france for one year? We would like to rent out our house here in the UK and live in Nice for a year - can we do this without having to become a french resident and all the french tax implications?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="pinkcat1771"]can we do this without having to become a french resident and all the french tax implications?[/quote]Not for a year, you can't.  For six months maybe,but after that you are considered resident in normal circumstances.  However, the tax implications can work in your favour and an E106 should cover your healthcare for a year (assuming you work at present) - it really is not terribly complicated to change your residency status.  Will you be working over here or what? For the official version, see

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/services/eu-guide/rights/index_en.html#14134_10

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F12017.xhtml?&n=Etrangers%20en%20France&l=N8&n=Citoyens%20communautaires%20en%20France&l=N112

[CeeJay]

Cooperlola

Sorry, but I was under the impression that the 6months rule was only part of the equation, we have lived here for about 10months a year for about 14years now. My main country of support, eg house,pension,clubs joined etc means that we are UK resident for tax purposes. Perhaps I am wrong?

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Ceejay"]Cooperlola

 Perhaps I am wrong?

[/quote]

According to this thread you are correct.

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/2005137/ShowPost.aspx#2005137

The question really is how you fit in with the French authorities.

[nounours]

[quote user="Ceejay"]Cooperlola
Sorry, but I was under the impression that the 6months rule was only part of the equation, we have lived here for about 10months a year for about 14years now. My main country of support, eg house,pension,clubs joined etc means that we are UK resident for tax purposes. Perhaps I am wrong?
[/quote]

  Assuming this is not a wind up.  Yes you are wrong .  You should have been declaring and paying tax, social charges and healthcare contributions in France for the last 14 years.[:-))]  There is no criteria on earth that makes you a UK resident, your pension and club membership is irrelevant.

Just as a mattter of interest how have you been getting healthcare for the last 14 years.

That case that Benjamin cites is an exception where the person is evading tax and not avoiding it and all sorts of issues come into play for people who try and evade income tax, in your case there is no doubt whatsoever[:$].

[CeeJay]

Sorry, but the case that Benjamin cites is exactly what I had in mind, it does not create new criteria but merely reinforces long standing criteria that there are other forces at work not merely the so many days rule.

I would recommend that you read the judgement, if possible.

As far as health care is concerned that is a private matter and does not impinge on the French system.I can assure you that we have never been a burden on any French system.

I am not attempting to cast judgement on any one else, but merely state my own position for other peoples consideration.

Nothing that is stated here in this Forum is gospel, professional help is always at hand, if you want to pay for it!!

To state that one should do this or the other is imposing ones thoughts where they should not be imposed!!

[Will]

From the small amount of information supplied you would certainly be fiscally resident in France. You may also be UK tax resident, though that sounds unlikely. Many people (me included) have dual tax residency. You should be making French tax declarations every year; where you are taxed on any particular item is governed by the double taxation agreement between UK and France.

As mentioned above, where you could fall foul of the system is where you pay health and social security contributions. Normally that is where you spend the majority of your time, which means it is usually, but not necessarily, where you are tax resident. So on the basis of what you say you should be in the French health system rather than the NHS.

[Araucaria]

I rather think the OP gets the worst of all possible worlds.

He would probably be resident in France under French rules, but would remain resident in the UK under UK rules. He'd have his normal UK tax returns to make (that rental income for a start).

And he'd have to go through all the trouble of making one or possibly two French tax returns, and making the claim in France that he was to be treated as a UK resident under the terms of the Double Taxation Agreement.

He'd have to import his car too, but perhaps we'd best not start on that....

[JMB]

Deleted, from the Forums Code of Conduct.

Users must not post messages which:

Incite illegal activity.

[nounours]

If you are in the position to have to make tax declaratiuon in France and the UK, you do get the benefit of the tax free allowances in both counties, and it can be beneficial in some cases.  As for the other poster, typical ex Civil Servant " do as I say and not as I do"[:P]

[cooperlola]

This was my point, teddy bear.  If the o/p choses his/her moving date carefully then s/he can get possibly get under a tax threshold in the tax year for both countries, and save a bit.  Also, as I said in my original post, if there's any E106 entitlement then healthcare should be covered also.  Changing residency status (to my mind obligatory in this case, whatever somebody who appears on the surface at least to have been under the radar in France for 14 years [sic] says) isn't that complicated and could be cheap also.  Win-win and legal.[:)]

[JMB]

[quote user="JMB"]

Deleted, from the Forums Code of Conduct.

Users must not post messages which:

Incite illegal activity.

[/quote]

This of course is one of the big problems with this forum. No one can express a opinion that is in any way out of line with that of the fluffy retired people who by and large live in a totally disconnected world.

[Will]

I am not retired.

I certainly don't regard myself as 'fluffy', despite the avatar. Prickly is more accurate.

The world I live in appears to be quite well connected with the rest of existence.

I often disagree with other people.

The only place where I have frequently been deleted is AngloInfo.

Are you sure you have the right forum, JMB?

[JMB]

Er yes I am sure I have got the right one. This forum has become really quite. Gone are the days of lively debate with the likes of "Miki" abusing everyone in sight. Now it seems to be a safe little mutual admiration society. I have just had a post deleted for saying I didn't think anything was wrong with living in France for a year as a tourist. I know a few people who have houses in France and spend rather a lot of time in france but their tax residency is ofshore. So what does anyone really care? There seems to be a whole raft of people who want to mind other peoples business. By the way Will I was not directing my comments at you, your posts are mostly very factual and helpfull you do not try to instill fear and panic like a few on here.

[5-element]

[quote user="JMB"]Er yes I am sure I have got the right one. This forum has become really quite. Gone are the days of lively debate with the likes of "Miki" abusing everyone in sight. Now it seems to be a safe little mutual admiration society. I have just had a post deleted for saying I didn't think anything was wrong with living in France for a year as a tourist. I know a few people who have houses in France and spend rather a lot of time in france but their tax residency is ofshore. So what does anyone really care? There seems to be a whole raft of people who want to mind other peoples business. By the way Will I was not directing my comments at you, your posts are mostly very factual and helpfull you do not try to instill fear and panic like a few on here.[/quote]

"This forum has become really quite".  Quite what?

I am genuinely puzzled by how a "safe little mutual admiration society" can be full of people who "try to instil fear and panic".

I agree with you about Will, though, and remember that Miki could be really insightful and not always abusive.[;-)]

[andyh4]

[quote user="JMB"]. So what does anyone really care? .[/quote]

 

Well actually I care - because for every person that gets around the system and does not pay their dues, I have to pay a litttle bit more.

 

It's about time folk realised that they are not cheating the Government who are fair game, they are cheating their neighbours.

 

As for the OP if (s)he can legitimately use the system and pay no tax, then jolly good luck, becuase sticking by the rules is just fine by me.

 

rant over

[nounours]

[quote user="JMB"]Er yes I am sure I have got the right one. This forum has become really quite. Gone are the days of lively debate with the likes of "Miki" abusing everyone in sight. .[/quote]

Whats lively about encouraging tax dodging and fraud?[8-)] You are also  totally wrong about Miki, he runs or ran a B&B business in France and was a great help to many people setting up a similar business, he was banned sometime back but not for being abusive, he wrote what he thought and was sometimes wrong as we all are but is the Forum any better or worse for his demise, the posts are certainly shorter!! 

Looking back at your posts, its puzzling that you cite Miki as you never had any dealings with him or Dick Smith. I don't know if you post elsewhere but there is a petrol brand sounding forum where comments like yours about ducking and diving and letting others pay extra taxes and charges for the under the radar people who infest France will be much appreciated.

[mint]

[quote user="5-element"]"This forum has become really quite".  Quite what?

I am genuinely puzzled by how a "safe little mutual admiration society" can be full of people who "try to instil fear and panic".

[/quote]

You beat me to it, 5-e:  I, too, was wondering quite WHAT the Forum has become[:D]

"Little mutual admiration society"..............LOL, the poster clearly doesn't follow some of the spats on here.  Actually, they can be quite amusing (especially if one isn't on the receiving end!)

Anyway, I doubt that there is anyone on here who is easily made fearful and panicky.

[Quillan]

[quote user="nounours"]

[quote user="JMB"]Er yes I am sure I have got the right one. This forum has become really quite. Gone are the days of lively debate with the likes of "Miki" abusing everyone in sight. .[/quote]

Whats lively about encouraging tax dodging and fraud?[8-)] You are also  totally wrong about Miki, he runs or ran a B&B business in France and was a great help to many people setting up a similar business, he was banned sometime back but not for being abusive, he wrote what he thought and was sometimes wrong as we all are but is the Forum any better or worse for his demise, the posts are certainly shorter!! 

Looking back at your posts, its puzzling that you cite Miki as you never had any dealings with him or Dick Smith. I don't know if you post elsewhere but there is a petrol brand sounding forum where comments like yours about ducking and diving and letting others pay extra taxes and charges for the under the radar people who infest France will be much appreciated.

[/quote]

Whilst I can't discuss the in's and out's of it your statement is wrong.

 

[JMB]

Ha ha looking at these posts my case rests. A fluffy mutual admiration society.

[nounours]

Reminds me of the story of the soldiers on parade, "Oh look, mum, everybody is iut of step exceot little Jimmy Mc Bride[:P]

[mint]

[quote user="JMB"]Ha ha looking at these posts my case rests. A fluffy mutual admiration society.[/quote]

Could you please define "fluffy"?

Not being contentious, just not quite sure what is meant by this word and what your intention is when using it about members of this Forum.[8-)]

[cooperlola]

Mutual admiration society or not (and you should see what Dog and Norman call some of us on occasions!); fluffy of not - the choice to post on this forum is yours, JMB - if you don't like it, I'm sure you can find somewhere on the web where people fling insults at each other all day just for "fun".  In this case, the o/p asked a practical question on a practical part of the forum (this is not the free for all section, although there is one of those) and a few people gave him/her their advice.

In this case, I freely admit that I greatly admire Will and his capacity to provide clear and concise information when it's a subject he knows about.  Otherwise he pretty much keeps his gob shut - I think that's pretty admirable myself - wish I could!  Although he does have his moments (see a recent thread entitled 'Ladies') - "fluffy" - I don't think so.[:D]

And talking of o/p's - I don't suppose s/he who started this thread can be bothered with it now, do you?

[PaulT]

[quote user="andyh4"]

[quote user="JMB"]. So what does anyone really care? .[/quote]

 

Well actually I care - because for every person that gets around the system and does not pay their dues, I have to pay a litttle bit more.

 

It's about time folk realised that they are not cheating the Government who are fair game, they are cheating their neighbours.

 

As for the OP if (s)he can legitimately use the system and pay no tax, then jolly good luck, becuase sticking by the rules is just fine by me.

 

rant over

[/quote]

Totally agree. There is someone I know of who, under the rules, is resident in France, does not have a house to reside in in the UK but comes over for NHS treatment and for a Mobility vehicle. As a tax payer in the UK I am paying for that!

 

[bigears]

hi

just got hold of this thread, just when I was loosing interest in this forum, thinking it was past its sell by date.  Getting back to the question, for one year I would not advocate joing the french system.  Go back to the uk occasionally and arrange a suitable health insurance.  Keeping a Uk reged car legal should not be a problem.  You can always cross a border for a day after 6 months and fill up with fuel. 

In practice you probably need not to take any precations just enjoy your year, if you like it, stay and get registered.