Thought I saw the light at the tunnels end.

[Sprogster]

There is a major limitation on private health insurance policies, in that new chronic health conditions are generally only covered up to diagnosis and at most an initial period of treatment thereafter.

There has been much discussion in the past by posters, as to the fact that PHI does not cover pre-existing conditions. However, I don't believe there has been an awareness as to the limitations of PHI cover for new chronic health conditions diagnosed after cover was taken out.

Therefore if you were perfectly healthy when you took out your PHI and subsequent to moving to France developed a chronic health condition that required long term treatment, then you could find you PHI policy sadly lacking.

Another factor to budget for is that the annual premiums are recalculated on a annual basis subject to claims history and age, so wil increase and substantively after the age of 60.

[Sunday Driver]

The potential problem of existing private policies becoming invalid due to new chronic health conditions being diagnosed is catered for within the 'accident de vie' principle as set down in the 2007 DSS circular on residence and health cover for inactives.

La personne a disposé, dans le passé, de ressources suffisantes pour assurer son autonomie matérielle ainsi que d’une assurance maladie couvrant l’ensemble des risques. L’accident de la vie (perte d’emploi, séparation ou décès d’un conjoint, cessation de la vie maritale, refus d’assurance en cas de maladie grave et non prévisible, au moment du changement de résidence…) peut la conduire à demander à avoir accès à la CMU. La CMU de base peut lui être accordée ainsi que le, cas échéant, la CMUc.

So, if a previously unforseen condition arises once you are resident in France and it affects your current insurance policy, then you have the right to be considered for entitlement to couverture maladie universelle.

 

 

[AnOther]

Be interesting to discover if anyone has successfully pled that one yet [blink]

[Sunday Driver]

If they meet all the conditions, then why wouldn't they be successful?

 

 

[AnOther]

Because you will have read as many tales as I, if not more, of people being

misinformed, filibustered, and yes, even downright lied to, by various government departments and have yourself, on many occasions, quoted the relevant rules in order for them to return and stand up for their rights, none of which would be necessary if they were properly understood and evenly applied by those charged with doing so.

Why should anyone finding themselves in an L’accident de la vie situation expect to fare any differently ?

[ebaynut]

I wonder what the outcome would be if you had sold in the UK, moved the family to France, covered by private healthcare, and one of you was subsequently diagnosed with an serious problem?

Would it be a case of not being recognized as a French resident until you had perhaps made your first tax return, or until five full years?

As clearly the French are on a cost cutting exercise with their healthcare, I am not sure how this would go.

 

[Benjamin]

Why not visit your Mairie and tell them that you've arrived to live there permanently with copies of everyone's passports and a copy of the purchase document from the Notaire or a copy of your rental agreement. There can be no question of the date your residency commenced without having to wait until you file your first tax return.

This idea of introducing yourself at the Mairie is often looked on as being a bit old fashioned but it may have it's future uses.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="ebaynut"]I wonder what the outcome would be if you had sold in the UK, moved the family to France, covered by private healthcare, and one of you was subsequently diagnosed with an serious problem?

Would it be a case of not being recognized as a French resident until you had perhaps made your first tax return, or until five full years?

As clearly the French are on a cost cutting exercise with their healthcare, I am not sure how this would go.

[/quote]

By moving to France with private healthcare, and provided you can also prove that you have the necessary level of income to be over the threshold for claiming state welfare and have lived here for three months, then you will have met the required conditions for legal residency. You do not have to wait until you have completed your first tax return.

 

 

[roods]

Going right back to Dexter's original question - what is a ball park figure for PHI? I am 60yrs, no pre-existing health problems. I currently reside in Cyprus but really want to move to France. I'm trying to work out the differences in the cost of living to budget for such a move. Can anyone give me some idea, preferably in Euros.

[cooperlola]

Depends on so many things.  A basic hospital only policy from Exclusive (just one company of many - but they have the costs on line so are easy to look up!) costs 1800 a year for a person your age.  But in theory at least the level of cover is way below that which the French government specifies.  The full cover policy (or reasonably close to full, anyway) which more realistically reflects the level of cover demanded by the government is 3,900 a year from the same company.  Nobody knows how strict the FG will be in asking or investigating the level of cover you have had, but as you'd be 65 before the five years is up, and thus entitled to an E121, that shouldn't matter.

AnO : I am about to get involved in the first "accident de vie" case I've come across.  I'll let you know how it all turns out!  But like Mr Driver, I really cannot see that there should be much of a problem as the rules are pretty well laid down now.  Yes, it took a while to get an agreement, but things seem to have settled down quite well now.  The big problem before, imho, was just the sheer numbers of people involved, and the about-faces in policy decisions which were going on at the time.

[AnOther]

Good luck with your "accident de vie" case, if anybody can smoothly navigate it through I'm sure it's you [8-|]

Be very interesting to see how it goes but with your indepth knowledge of the subject behind the claimant will it really qualify as a typical case I wonder [blink]

[annie]

I've just looked at the web site mentioned earlier (swotting up ready for a proposed move in April) Wow, I was aware we would have to pay PHI but along with so called social charges, I'm not sure our money is going to go very far at all!

My father in law wants to move over too but he is concerned because he will have to take out PHI to top up his pension (+65) and atm doesn't pay for anything. I thought that it would balance out with what he saves in council tax payments and utilities etc here. Social charges - which sound much higher than I believed, etc possibly change the situation totally.

[mint]

[quote user="annies gone sailing"]

I've just looked at the web site mentioned earlier (swotting up ready for a proposed move in April) Wow, I was aware we would have to pay PHI but along with so called social charges, I'm not sure our money is going to go very far at all!

My father in law wants to move over too but he is concerned because he will have to take out PHI to top up his pension (+65) and atm doesn't pay for anything. I thought that it would balance out with what he saves in council tax payments and utilities etc here. Social charges - which sound much higher than I believed, etc possibly change the situation totally.

[/quote]

Do you mean that he will have to take out top-up insurance (a mutuelle) as, if he's over retirement age, he should come over with an E121?

Is he going to be living with you or buying a house for himself?  If the latter, then the taxe foncière and taxe d'habitation would vary with the ammenities of his house and the region in which he is going to live.

Our TF and TH are in excess of €1500 and it's not an exceptionally large property; sort of average 3 beds, 2 baths, bit of garden, etc.  With the rubbishy exchange rate, these taxes are only slightly less than our 4 bed semi back in the UK.

Edit:  the apostrophe in your name is making quoting you difficult.

[annie]

S17

It worked. Better I hope.

[annie]

Re Father in law..

I was under the impression he would need top up even though he is state retirement age?

He will live in his own place (I would strangle him within hours if he lived with us, and vice versa probably) Just a small 2 bed with small garden.

[mint]

Annie, taking out top-up is, of course, optional though we do have it despite it being quite expensive on account of my OH's age.  What I think is, we don't pay "up front" in the UK and I want to have the same peace of mind here in France should anything go wrong.

There will be some here who will say, don't take it out, just save up the money instead, etc etc.  But, for us, we want to know that all will be taken care of should we need anything major and that our prescriptions for drugs, etc will be paid for and we could feel reasonably carefree about the unexpected.  I would love to pay all my life and NOT have to claim, that would be the ideal!!!

As for the taxes, he might qualify for some reduction or even exemption, depending on his age and his income, but certainly they will be no more onerous than in the UK.

Hope it works out for all of you, Annie.  It's a lovely country to be in if you can pay your way and get your head round the fact that most things are going to be completely different from what you were used to![:D]  

[annie]

Thank you, We are very much looking forward to it, and we think my father in law will too. He will take out top up but it may take him a while to research - mind you, I've told him to get on with it because he can quibble somewhat, and, as I have told him, whatever he decides is fine, because I worship the ground that is coming to him!

I agree with you, even though I'm a bit of a risk taker with some things, I want peace of mind where our health care is concerned. I know of someone still using EHIC after a number of years in France! V risky.     

[mint]

To reassure your FIL, for our first year we use a well-known provider with an English website and documentation as I was prepared to pay a bit of extra in order to be able to understand what is claimable, etc and to have our questions answered by a living, breathing British person! LOL

The following year, we researched and found a French provider whose premium was some 500 euros cheaper for the same cover.  But I was still happy to have paid the first mutuelle company because I had to learn these things and, as they say, information does not come cheap (except on the Forum!)

[dexter]

I`m confused again! (Happening a lot at the moment!)

Apart from  Taxe Fonc and Taxe D`hab what other charges should I expect to pay when I eventualy get over to France?

I say eventualy because the couple that were so in love with my house pulled out last week without any notice or reason given so it`s back to the waiting game again for me.

That being said, I`m flying to Limoges next week to look at some more properties, (a mans got to have a dream) so if anyone in 87 or 23 comes across a bloke swearing at his sat naf with an open map in front of him It`ll probably be me.

 

Dexter

[Sunday Driver]

Annie

Something to get your FIL started on his research....

His E121 will get him access to state healthcare insurance without him having to pay any contributions. The average top up will probably cost him in the region of 50€ per month.  With these in place, then apart from certain dental work and spectacles, he should end up not having to pay for doctor's visits, medications, blood tests, X-rays/scans, hospital bills, etc.

If he only receives his UK state pension, then he won't pay any tax in France.  He'll also be exempt from paying tax d'habitation on his property and he'll qualify for 100€ off his tax fonciere bill.

He will only be liable to social charges on his savings/investment income so if interest rates remain as low as they are now, then he ain't going to pay much.

Oh, and if his house has oil central heating, he can apply for a 200€ grant from the tax office toward the cost of his annual oil bill.....[:)]

 

 

[AnOther]

Can anyone (would anyone) actually choose to live in France solely on a UK state pension which is what, about €5600/annum !

Isn't that below the self sufficiency threshold for legal residency ?

[mint]

I didn't know there was a "self sufficiency threshold"?

And yes, I am sure it would be very hard to live on the amount you have specified but it is perhaps quite possible?  I understand that the "poverty" level in France is about €4500?  Clair will soon put us right, I'm sure.

Anway, Annie didn't say that her FIL only has his state pension to live on; for all we know he might be a millionaire.

As for SD's post, he was merely giving an example of someone with only UK state pension.

Oh Erns, how it's removed you from "ordinary" people, that high flying job you have with the attendant mega bucks that you earn![:P]

[Clair]

[quote user="sweet 17"]I didn't know there was a "self sufficiency threshold"?

I understand that the "poverty" level in France is about €4500?  Clair will soon put us right, I'm sure.[/quote]

By "self-sufficiency threshold", I believe AnOther means the level below which you become a burden on the state.

This used to be the level below which the RMI would be attributed. The RMI has been replaced by the RSA and, assuming the same principle is sill at work, the minimum monthly ceiling is show below:

(source)

Montants

Montant forfaitaire servant au calcul du revenu garanti par le RSA   Nombre de personnes composant le foyer   Montant forfaitaire   1 adulte seul  454,63 EUR   2 adultes sans enfant à charge  681,95 EUR   supplément(s) par enfant(s) à charge  136,39 EUR pour les 2 premiers enfants / 181,85 EUR à partir du 3ème enfant   1 adulte isolé avec enfant  778,32 EUR (+ 194,58 EUR / enfant supplémentaire)

[Chancer]

I reckon that I am living (quite well in my book) on a net income of less than that.

I have about twice that amount coming in but the majority of it is spent, very cautiously, but spent none the less on renovation materials.

It all depends what you are used to, what your aspirations are and whether you have any other choices.

I chose this deck of cards, they were not dealt to me and if things work out I will be relatively comfortable (in my terms) at the end of this never ending project.

I could at any stage just give up and go back to the UK and get a job or start another business, it is the threat of that that keeps me going every day [:)]

Living on a state pension, in a strange (well it is [:D]) country and being at the mercy of exchange rates is not a situation that I would relish.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Clair"]By "self-sufficiency threshold", I believe AnOther

means the level below which you become a burden on the state[/quote]Correct [:)]