Cadastral plans do not show the reality of a “chemin d’exploitation”

[Steve Last]

A word of warning to anyone considering buying a property with neighbouring farmers!   

I and (I expect many others) will have thought the cadatral plan associated with their deeds was a definitive document. My sister-in-law has a "chemin d'exploitation" (farm track) marked on the cadastral plan attached to her "Acte" and and we had assumed that it would be OK to build on the land (with appropriate permission from the Mairie etc) provided the marked chemin remained unobstructed.         

However, the Nimes Court of Appeal has just confirmed that markings on the plan cadastral do NOT have any meaning in terms of the width (and hence position) of the track! Their decision is that we "cannot rely on graphic measurements from the cadastral plans, which are only documents intended for tax purposes".  Instead it relied on much older land transaction documents which were never brought to her attention by the notaire (who also misled her about other aspects of the chemin). 

As a result, although the cadastral shows a 2m wide track, part of a building and some gates have to be removed in order to provide a 3m wide passage, although these were constructed wiht full approval from the Mairie and without objection from anyone else.  The whole case is more complicated than this but I this particular point might be of general interest.  

[Ken]

It is a good warning. I have never quite understood why people 'buy' a problem.  Anyone buying anything that is 'shared' in anyway is buying a potential problem. 

[anotherbanana]

There are folk who buy these small chemins or who do not sell them when a property is sold, the idea being that the new owner of the property will have to pay a hefty price to get rid of the nuisance or tractors passing etc. I knew of someone who had one running straight past their house front, having developed it as part of their garden. The owner used to run a tractor across the lawn a few times a years until they paid his wicked price.

[Steve Last]

In this case the seller told everyone that the track only extended to the properties being sold: the notaire was asked to confirm this and wrote it into the deed. The buyer of the further plot gave up his rights to use it (he had other access) as part of the deal so as far as we were aware there was now nobody else who could cross. Other locals came out of the woodwork 2 years later and started the lawsuit demanding a 4 metre access.  We are looking at what can be done about the fact that the notaire wrote a false statement in the deed.  We now believe he knew it was untrue at the time.     

[Lehaut]

And the very best of luck to you in sorting this out, with out bankrupting yourself and hitting sky high stress levels. (I am not being flippant).

[DaveLister]

My understanding is that a chemin d'exploitation is private and therefore the Mairie would have no interest in knowing how wide or narrow it is. They would assume that your sisters plans were correct in that regard. I suspect someone saw the planning application at the town hall and realised they could earn a bit of "compensation" if they sat on their hands for a couple of years. Have you tried talking to the other parties to see if there is a compromise to be had? Maybe that's not possible but I can only second Lehauts comments. You really don't want to go down the legal route if you can avoid it. It could ruin you financially.

[ssomon]

I agree with Lehaut. The first course of action before diving into a legal case is usually to try to reach an agreement, and it may not be too late to do so.

[Steve Last]

The legal side is done as far as the initial case is concerned (and yes, it has involved a lot of stress!).    My point in posting the original message was to alert people to the fact a track shown on the cadastral doesn't represent the legal situation of either what or where it is.   

The ongoing question is how come the notaire didn't tell us this when we specifically asked him in writing about its details and who had rights to use it, and he had done the previous transactions involving it!     

[anotherbanana]

Another problem seems to be the sudden demand for an increase in the width of the track; could this be a try-on by those claiming rights who want a hand out? This the notaire could not have anticipated.

[DaveLister]

I think that if one was to superimpose the cadastre plan over most satellite pics you would find that it was, at best, a guestimate. The only way to ever be truly sure is to employ a geometre.

Another chemin story. My neighbours ( french ) bought their property whilst working overseas and when taking up residence discovered that a track that ran down two sides of their property was not their private access but a Chemin Rural belonging to the Mairie ( no I don't know why the notaire wasn't across it either ). They ended up employing a very expensive Advocate in Paris who assured them that, if no one used the track for more than 10 years they could claim ownership. So they started to make it very difficult for the general public to gain access ( parking their car in front of the house that sort of thing ). They had many an argument with the hunters who wanted to get to the woods and even demolished a wall to give the impression that the chemin stopped short of where it actually did.

Some fifteen years later we bought a stretch of land adjoining the track and were surprised to discover it belonged to the commune. We started using it ( albeit mostly by foot ) and our neighbours, on checking, found that their lawyer hadn't even begun the process of applying for it to be erased and, anyway, our new usage now made that application nul and void.

They sold the property last year to a Belgian couple who appear to have done their research and are quite happy with the situation.

[Ken]

18 hours ago, Steve Last said:

The legal side is done as far as the initial case is concerned (and yes, it has involved a lot of stress!).    My point in posting the original message was to alert people to the fact a track shown on the cadastral doesn't represent the legal situation of either what or where it is.   

The ongoing question is how come the notaire didn't tell us this when we specifically asked him in writing about its details and who had rights to use it, and he had done the previous transactions involving it!     

"The ongoing question is how come the notaire didn't tell us this when we specifically asked him in writing about its details and who had rights to use it, and he had done the previous transactions involving it!  "

If you asked the question then you should have insisted on an answer!  You have to take the responsibility I'm afraid. Buyer beware! Why did you go ahead if you weren't satisfied? Seems rather naive.

[Harnser]

20 hours ago, DaveLister said:

I think that if one was to superimpose the cadastre plan over most satellite pics you would find that it was, at best, a guestimate. The only way to ever be truly sure is to employ a geometre.

20 hours ago, DaveLister said:

 

 

So where do the geometres get the accurate details of a property from to do their extremely expensive measurements and calculations?

[DaveLister]

2 hours ago, Harnser said:

So where do the geometres get the accurate details of a property from to do their extremely expensive measurements and calculations?

By visiting the site, meeting with all interested parties, examining not just the cadastre but historical maps and satellite images. Remember a Geometre is the only person who can legally deliminate a boundary.

[Loiseau]

And, with any luck, the géometre will also expose markers still in place from the last time it was surveyed. Our markers were moss-encrusted, pyramidal lumps of concrete the shape of those soft goats' cheeses. Would never have spotted them without an expert to delve into the bushes at the right spot.