Total Income

[Joe]

Could someone tell me when I am liable for tax here.The figure of 21000 euros comes to mind.As I am not yet up to speed on the language yet,I cannot see any figures on my tax forms.

I am now out of the UK tax system so hopefully I will be better off.We both just receive our company pensions.

[cooperlola]

I can't help you with the base figure but, because you only have private pensions, then it's easy to work out you liability using the

SIMULATOR

[parsnips]

[quote user="Joe"]Could someone tell me when I am liable for tax here.The figure of 21000 euros comes to mind.As I am not yet up to speed on the language yet,I cannot see any figures on my tax forms.

I am now out of the UK tax system so hopefully I will be better off.We both just receive our company pensions.

[/quote]

Hi ,

    This year for  a couple on pensions only it is 19989€.

[Joe]

Thank you for the info.I was told that it was around  20000euro.

[gpnoel]

Hi Parsnips

I note the tax exemption figure of 19 989€ for a couple whose only income is from pensions.

I (do not have as much knowledge of the system as you and) am not qualified to disagree, but am unclear why page 2 of the Fiche de Calculs Facultative (explanatory notes which come with the Declaration des Revenues) should state that the tax exemption figure is 17 263€ (2 parts) - I always thought this latter amount was the effective exemption figure.

Q  From your comment "on pensions only", are the tax free figures affected by the type of income received?

Q  What is our tax exemption figure: 2 parts, with 4 private company pensions (2 reported as pensions/2 reported as rentes viagères) plus a few pounds/euros interest from bank accounts in UK/France; and is there a web site where we could check the figures each year - (as we have some savings in Livret A and LEP accounts)?

Q  Does the tax exemption figure change when I reach age 65 (in 2013)?

Thank you, in advance, for any clarification you can give.

Noel

[parsnips]

[quote user="gpnoel"]Hi Parsnips

I note the tax exemption figure of 19 989€ for a couple whose only income is from pensions.

I (do not have as much knowledge of the system as you and) am not qualified to disagree, but am unclear why page 2 of the Fiche de Calculs Facultative (explanatory notes which come with the Declaration des Revenues) should state that the tax exemption figure is 17 263€ (2 parts) - I always thought this latter amount was the effective exemption figure.

Q  From your comment "on pensions only", are the tax free figures affected by the type of income received?

Q  What is our tax exemption figure: 2 parts, with 4 private company pensions (2 reported as pensions/2 reported as rentes viagères) plus a few pounds/euros interest from bank accounts in UK/France; and is there a web site where we could check the figures each year - (as we have some savings in Livret A and LEP accounts)?

Q  Does the tax exemption figure change when I reach age 65 (in 2013)?

Thank you, in advance, for any clarification you can give.

Noel

[/quote]

Hi,

 1.   I took into account the 10% allowance against pension income to get my figure.

 2.   There is no tax exemption figure as such , only a maximum net taxable income figure which is not liable to tax.

 3.   Your pensions get a 10% allowance ,  Your rentes viageres  get from 30% to 70% tax-free depending on the age you first drew them .

 4.    Bank interest is taxable in full. Livret A and LEP are tax and CSG-free.

 5.     Bank interest and rentes viagere are subject to CSG at 12.3% .

 6.    Nothing changes at age 65. (Except you qualify for UK state pension ,which is taxable in France (with 10% allowance ) and you will need to complete Form "France Individual" for it to avoid any possible double taxation).

   

[cooperlola]

Re point 6 in Parsnips's post above: When you begin to receive a UK state pension then you also cease to pay CMU contributions (if applicable.)  Off topic a bit I know, but something to be aware of in any budgeting you're doing.

[Jay]

Hi Parsnips, I was aware of all the points you made except No 6. Where do you obtain a "France individual" form? I presume this is a form for the UK tax office.

[cooperlola]

I know I'm not Parsnips but I've just updated the FAQs on this subject so it was at my fingertips (as t'were):

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/france-individual.pdf

Used to be called an FD5.  If you have an occupational pension taxable in France then  you've probably already done this.

[Jay]

Thank you.

[suej]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

I can't help you with the base figure but, because you only have private pensions, then it's easy to work out you liability using the

SIMULATOR

[/quote]

 

Thanks for this link Coops.  I hadn't been able to trace the Simulator through my Espace Personnel..

[gpnoel]

Thanks to both Parsnips and Cooperlola.

However - not trying to be picky, just trying to understand - using your gross/brut pension figure of 19 989€, after the 10% reduction on pensions, the "tax free" figure only reduces to 17 990€ and not the RFR figure of 17 263€ (shown on the Notes which came with the Declaration des Revenues form).  Is the difference perhaps explained by the fact that a tax liability below a certain amount is not actually collected by the authorities - so increasing/grossing up the effective tax free RFR figure accordingly?

I note (although am a little surprised) that there is no age allowance for direct tax purposes - with the exception of the exemption from Tax d'Habitation (and Redevance Audiovisuelle), when age 60 and where RFR is below 15 376€.

Noel

[parsnips]

[quote user="gpnoel"]Thanks to both Parsnips and Cooperlola.

However - not trying to be picky, just trying to understand - using your gross/brut pension figure of 19 989€, after the 10% reduction on pensions, the "tax free" figure only reduces to 17 990€ and not the RFR figure of 17 263€ (shown on the Notes which came with the Declaration des Revenues form).  Is the difference perhaps explained by the fact that a tax liability below a certain amount is not actually collected by the authorities - so increasing/grossing up the effective tax free RFR figure accordingly?

I note (although am a little surprised) that there is no age allowance for direct tax purposes - with the exception of the exemption from Tax d'Habitation (and Redevance Audiovisuelle), when age 60 and where RFR is below 15 376€.

Noel

[/quote]

The figure of 17990€ is taken from a table in "Le Particulier" magazine (a reliable source) which takes into account the "decote" mechanism and the non-collectible limit.

[gpnoel]

Thanks Parsnips (and for quoting the source) ..... I can keep an eye on Le Particulier in the future.

Noel