Ken Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 My wife, a Finn, is quite happy that her country has applied to join N.A.T.O. Many years ago, when we first used to discuss the issue she was against it, as were the majority of Finns. My arguments then were as they are now, never let a bully ,bully! She would argue that from the perspective of being British that was an easy thing for me to say. She would often say that "A whisper in Moscow could be heard in Helsinki". The meaning being that Moscow was always threatening Finland. Anyway she, and her countrymen have now 'seen the light'!!!! Putin does appear to have made a right 'pig's ear' of his invasion and hopefully with the help the U.K. and the USA have given (and continues to give) Ukraine will come out the winner. A slight aside is that Germany has said it will be there for the 'long fight' !!! I wasn't aware that it was there even for a 'short' fight! Just what have they done in real terms to help Ukraine, we know what they are doing helping Russia! As for Jupiter, just about everyone is ridiculing him; and rightly so. Even the Russians are making sarcastic comments about him and his telephone calls. Someone with his ego must be really suffering, what a shame!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) On 16/05/2022 at 07:23, Ken said: My wife, a Finn, is quite happy that her country has applied to join N.A.T.O. Many years ago, when we first used to discuss the issue she was against it, as were the majority of Finns. My arguments then were as they are now, never let a bully ,bully! She would argue that from the perspective of being British that was an easy thing for me to say. She would often say that "A whisper in Moscow could be heard in Helsinki". The meaning being that Moscow was always threatening Finland. Anyway she, and her countrymen have now 'seen the light'!!!! Putin does appear to have made a right 'pig's ear' of his invasion and hopefully with the help the U.K. and the USA have given (and continues to give) Ukraine will come out the winner. A slight aside is that Germany has said it will be there for the 'long fight' !!! I wasn't aware that it was there even for a 'short' fight! Just what have they done in real terms to help Ukraine, we know what they are doing helping Russia! As for Jupiter, just about everyone is ridiculing him; and rightly so. Even the Russians are making sarcastic comments about him and his telephone calls. Someone with his ego must be really suffering, what a shame!!!!! My wife is happy Finland has now joined. My post, nearly a year ago about Finland applying to join N.A.T.O has come to fruition. Well done Finland. Edited April 6, 2023 by Ken 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Indeed, a worthy addition to NATO whose main aim, it should be remembered, is to prevent conflict. When touring northern Europe a few years ago on the motorbike, we stayed in a strange hotel on a lake in South Savo. We drove as close to the Finland Russian border as we could, just for the "fun" of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 I would disagree, on a point of specifics, that N.A.T.O is to avoid conflict. Perhaps you disagree. For me it is to prevent what is happening in Ukraine at the moment! Perhaps the same thing!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lehaut Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 15 hours ago, Ken said: I would disagree, on a point of specifics, that N.A.T.O is to avoid conflict. Perhaps you disagree. For me it is to prevent what is happening in Ukraine at the moment! Perhaps the same thing!!!! One would hope that, if Ukraine had been in NATO, Russia would have not attacked it for fear of reprisals by the rest of the alliance. Hence my comment that the aim of NATO is to prevent conflict by publicity of Law 5: What is the 5 law of NATO? Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. In a previous life I was the aid to the Deputy Chief of the Allied Staff of NATO down the hole in the bunker at Northwood. They let me keep the badge but, sadly, not the aiguillettes. Things will have moved on since then, but I never saw anything that advocated a first strike rather than a response to aggression. But yes, we both want the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 07/04/2023 at 09:13, Lehaut said: One would hope that, if Ukraine had been in NATO, Russia would have not attacked it for fear of reprisals by the rest of the alliance. Hence my comment that the aim of NATO is to prevent conflict by publicity of Law 5: What is the 5 law of NATO? Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. In a previous life I was the aid to the Deputy Chief of the Allied Staff of NATO down the hole in the bunker at Northwood. They let me keep the badge but, sadly, not the aiguillettes. Things will have moved on since then, but I never saw anything that advocated a first strike rather than a response to aggression. But yes, we both want the same thing. Purely academic I know but--! I didn't know the exact wording of article 5 and simply assumed that if a N.A.T.O member is attacked the other members would take up arms and fight also. It is clear though from your posting of article 5 that it isn't, necessarily the case!! Quite alarming really. "will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the ally attacked'! Given what is happening in Ukraine and the responses of some countries, notably Germany and France who have prevaricated somewhat with regards helping Ukraine I wonder how they would respond if say Poland, or now Finland were attacked by Russia? I'm not sure I feel as quite happy with N.A.T.O as I was before reading your post!!! A backsliding country could claim to be 'doing what it deems necessary' by supplying helmets; as did Germany!!! Academic perhaps, but given the way these countries have acted , a real possibility of 'appeasement' being the 'deems necessary' !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now