Taxe Fonciere

[bettyboop]

Had a letter today, stating that our Taxe fonciere has been increased.

Last year 228e now 666e

It has never increased this much before,has anybody else heard anything.

Haute-vienne

[mint]

Not Haute-Vienne, BB, but my neighbour came with her letter today for translation and hers has gone up from 300 odd to over 800 euros.

The reason given was that our village has had a lot of travaux.

[bettyboop]

omg... more than mine, will try to get hold of neighbours, see if theres has also gone up, not sure if my french will be upto phoning the impots in Limoges

[idun]

I know in my village we could look at the records at the Mairie and see how much everyone paid in Taxe Fonciere.

Seems a very big increase and I would have hoped that the Mairie would have sent out letters to advise of the risk of such increases due to travaux. After all these things do have to be paid for. When there was any big works in our village there would always be a panneau to say who was paying what, even when we fought for and got a new ecole maternelle. 

[Dave&Olive]

Hi ok

              May I suggest you read it again .... we have just had the same letter it says that BOTH taxes are x euros  before any deductions for low income etc

 

Madame, Monsieur,

 

La Direction Generate des Finances Publiques conduit annuellement des travaux de mise a jour des bases d'imposition des impots locaux (taxe fonciere et taxe d'habitation).

 

                    Dave

[pachapapa]

Increasing state deficit and little chance of increase in GDP means that increased taxation on capital is one way out.

In 2010 Paris got hit with a 55% increase; now the penny is dropping in la france profonde.

Did you think somebody else would pick up the ISF & Bouclier Fiscal tab?[;-)]

[bettyboop]

Thank you Dave,

My letter starts like that and then in a later paragraph:

En appliquant les taux d'imposition votes l'annee derniere, votre taxe fonciere s'eleverait a 666euros Ce montant ne tient pas compte des eventuelles exonerations dont vous pourriez beneficier.

Which I read as an increase in the Fonciere tax.

Last year the base was 379,cotisation 70, so presume would now be 666,less the cotisation.

[bettyboop]

Papachapa,

I do expect to pay my way in France, just seemed a very large increase and just wanted to check it out. Our resident neighbours have had no such letter yet.

[pachapapa]

I have had, monday of this week, a letter of similar tenor.

I note from the relevant stub in my Crédit Agricole cheque book that on the 13/10/10 I drew a cheque for the sum of € 61 in favour of the Trésor Publique in respect of the Taxe Foncière.

I note from the letter mentioned above that the Taxe Fonciére for 2011 will be € 372.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

But for my own part I would just add that ANYTHING increasing by 600 % on an annual basis would elicit PPPs attention and interest.[:'(]

[pachapapa]

Finally finished the reclamation procedure at the local Tax Office in respect of the large increase in the Taxe Foncière due for the year 2011.

The new assessment based on a fresh review of the parameters contained in the H1 form should arrive within a week, allowing posting of the payment to Lille before the 17th October deadline.

Thus not incurring any majoration.

[Val_2]

For those who don't know what goes on at the local council each year when it comes to the budget,we have to sit and decide on whether to increase the foncières or not and by how much. A lot depends on what the work schedule is like for the coming year(s) concerning roads,drainage,lighting,sewage,schools,communal buildings and personnel etc, in fact everything that keeps the commune running smoothly. This year in our commune we faced a choice, either increase the foncières by a good 3% to cover the increases in costs or keep it unchanged from last year but then increase it higher next March. In the end we voted to a percentage increase of 2,5% on bâti and a whopping 4% increase on non-bâti and agricole as they had been stagnant for several years from increases. This way it would be a slight increase for the majority of inhabitants in a recession and a further increase next year. All this has to finally be agreed by the local percepteur who covers most of the Trésor Publics in the region and who implements each commune's decision with the fisc.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Val_2"]For those who don't know what goes on at the local council each year when it comes to the budget,we have to sit and decide on whether to increase the foncières or not and by how much. A lot depends on what the work schedule is like for the coming year(s) concerning roads,drainage,lighting,sewage,schools,communal buildings and personnel etc, in fact everything that keeps the commune running smoothly. This year in our commune we faced a choice, either increase the foncières by a good 3% to cover the increases in costs or keep it unchanged from last year but then increase it higher next March. In the end we voted to a percentage increase of 2,5% on bâti and a whopping 4% increase on non-bâti and agricole as they had been stagnant for several years from increases. This way it would be a slight increase for the majority of inhabitants in a recession and a further increase next year. All this has to finally be agreed by the local percepteur who covers most of the Trésor Publics in the region and who implements each commune's decision with the fisc.[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up. I had inadvertently fallen into the error of believing that the départments and EPCIs were involved in the baking of the cake.

Not now of course the regions.[:)]

My local community has seen a large increase in the calculation of the valeur locative cadastrale for older properties, often affecting little englanders particularly, but they rarely complain; indeed they rarely understand whats going on.

For my own part it would be easy to accept the proposed increase as I am within a stones throw of 75 years but I do love to take the *iss out of the local elus.[:)] 

[Val_2]

No its always been down to individual communes to set their own sealing for this tax. A lot depends on the accounts which we have to spend four hours pre-budget and then all over again officially with the Percepteur in attendence and reading all the figures and pages out for another 3 or 4 hours with many pages for us all to sign as agreed. A few days later we then meet to set the foncières according to loss or profit on the commune accounts and that can cause some disputes amongst the elected especially the farming members,but we do get three choices and have to choose one we think will serve the commune best. At least with local people deciding on this, it is more understood than being decided by the bigwigs in the Prefecture and Government who have never even visited half of the communes to see what they are doing regarding investment etc.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Val_2"]No its always been down to individual communes to set their own sealing for this tax. A lot depends on the accounts which we have to spend four hours pre-budget and then all over again officially with the Percepteur in attendence and reading all the figures and pages out for another 3 or 4 hours with many pages for us all to sign as agreed. A few days later we then meet to set the foncières according to loss or profit on the commune accounts and that can cause some disputes amongst the elected especially the farming members,but we do get three choices and have to choose one we think will serve the commune best. At least with local people deciding on this, it is more understood than being decided by the bigwigs in the Prefecture and Government who have never even visited half of the communes to see what they are doing regarding investment etc.[/quote]

Thanks for taking time out to explain how it works; I am glad to learn that ALL the taxe foncière is exclusively for the commune AND accordingly rapacious EPCIs and Départments will not receive even one penny, sorry one centime. Oh and I forgot to include Regions.

[Val_2]

When you consider the huge amounts it is sometimes necessary to borrow from the state to carry out large scale roadworks, or drainage that is necessary to bring communes into the 21st century, there is never enough in the coffers. My own commune has less than 900 inhabitants spread out over many kms and when you consider how few properties that really is (families of four people in one house etc) and the sort of revenue the foncières brings in, it will never be enough so loans have to be sought as well as applications for part payments by the dept and state towards it. Our commune accounts are scrupulous, right down to the last bin bag used in the school cantine. Don't forget too that the old taxe professionnelle now called something else (I should know as we pay two of them) also brings in a bit depending on number of businesses locally or rented premises belonging to the commune. Tax habitation is nothing to do with the foncières nor the commune, it is a personal tax levied against family income, the value of the property they live in and what they do for a living etc plus dependents and other nclusions and they make sure they get the TV licence too at the same time.

[nomoss]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

I am glad to learn that ALL the taxe foncière is exclusively for the commune AND accordingly rapacious EPCIs and Départments will not receive even one penny, sorry one centime. Oh and I forgot to include Regions.

[/quote]

In the "Détail du calcul des cotisations" on my Avis d'Imposition it appears that 30,69% is levied for the Département. There is also a note:

"À compter de 2011, pour les própriétés bâties, la part régionale est transférée au département. Pour les propriétés non bâties, une taxe additionelle se substitue aux parts départmentale et régionale"

Note (8), pertaining to this "Taxe additionelle" states "Cette taxe crée en 2011 et perçue au profit des communes et des EPCI ne s'applique qu'aux terres non agricoles"

[Gardengirl]

[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="pachapapa"]

I am glad to learn that ALL the taxe foncière is exclusively for the commune AND accordingly rapacious EPCIs and Départments will not receive even one penny, sorry one centime. Oh and I forgot to include Regions.

[/quote]

In the "Détail du calcul des cotisations" on my Avis d'Imposition it appears that 30,69% is levied for the Département. There is also a note:

"À compter de 2011, pour les própriétés bâties, la part régionale est transférée au département. Pour les propriétés non bâties, une taxe additionelle se substitue aux parts départmentale et régionale"

Note (8), pertaining to this "Taxe additionelle" states "Cette taxe crée en 2011 et perçue au profit des communes et des EPCI ne s'applique qu'aux terres non agricoles"

[/quote]

 

Our taxe foncière bill  arrived in UK today, and said much as nomoss has quoted.

Last year our's was €170; this year it is €690! [:(]

I make that 305% increase! I wouldn't mind a sweet 3% or 4%, but that's terrible! Now we know how the council's new arena and boxing club will be paid for! And the arena won't even take concerts as planned, as the acoustics are so bad!

[nomoss]

There seems to me to be something odd about the figures being quoted here for last and this year's Taxes Foncières.

Ours, for a small house, with no land, in a village with a population of 500, is 880 Euros, an increase of 19 Euros on last year's figure.

Are you sure your property valuations have not simply been updated, and you have not in fact being enjoying very low taxes for the last few years?

[Gardengirl]

Last year was our first payment, as the apartments were new when we all moved in, so it seems unlikely that valuations have shot up like that from new.

However, on inspecting the avis closely (I was in shock earlier!) I see that €245 was to the departement, so I was being unfair to the commune, which took €236.

[nomoss]

Your previous year's figure still seems very low. For a small studio apartment on the coast which we sold, the last Foncières we received, for 2007, was 307 Euros.

Edit:  And we're both in Languedoc-Roussillon

[bettyboop]

But why would ours go up by over 400e and not our neighbours???

Havent sorted mine out yet, but going over in a couple of weeks and going to office to find out why!!

[Gardengirl]

Just heard from a neighbour; they have a larger apartment, but the tax has gone up to €982, a similar increase to our's.

Nomoss, there does seem quite a difference between the two apartments, but I can't see that valuations would have changed by so much for our residence in the short time frame. We had budgeted for quite a bit more than last year, but nothing like it is. Can't say I'm looking forward to receiving the habitation one!

[pachapapa]

[quote user="gardengirl "]

Just heard from a neighbour; they have a larger apartment, but the tax has gone up to €982, a similar increase to our's.

Nomoss, there does seem quite a difference between the two apartments, but I can't see that valuations would have changed by so much for our residence in the short time frame. We had budgeted for quite a bit more than last year, but nothing like it is. Can't say I'm looking forward to receiving the habitation one!

[/quote]

The taxe d"habitation like the taxe foncière is based on the valeur locative cadastrale defined for the property, it would be reasonable therefore to assume a commensurate increase.

Similarly to the portion of the taxe foncière previously apportioned to the region and now apportioned to the départment; the portion of the taxe d'habitation previously apportioned to the départment will as of 2011 be apportioned to the commune.

A compter de 2011, le département ne perçoit plus la taxe d’habitation et la part départementale est transférée au bloc communal (communes, intercommunalité…).

[BJSLIV]

Is this big increase simply due to the expiration of the initial two year abatement for the taxe fonciere?

The first year may well have benefited the developer if the property had been empty for a while after completion.

[sid]

[quote user="nomoss"]

There seems to me to be something odd about the figures being quoted here for last and this year's Taxes Foncières.

Ours, for a small house, with no land, in a village with a population of 500, is 880 Euros, an increase of 19 Euros on last year's figure.

Are you sure your property valuations have not simply been updated, and you have not in fact being enjoying very low taxes for the last few years?

[/quote]

I agree!

Back in 2006 our foncieres bill was 588€. That year we built an extension to the house and enjoyed the following two years at a similar(ish) rate, the normal abatement for improvements. But then in 2009 the bill jumped to 1045€ to take account of the completed works. Since then we have only had small increases with bills of 1064€ in 2010 and 1091€ for 2011.

Surely Nomoss has a valid point here? 

I find the Avis d'Imposition very difficult to digest but it does at least show two years' figures 2011 and 2010 and you can see where the changes are. I think I'd make the Mairie my first port of call; the secretary is usually familiar with all of this.

For us it's still much cheaper than the Council Tax we had to pay in UK!