UK voluntary NI contributions and French pension

[froog150]

Hi,

I worked in the UK for sixteen years before moving to France, I have worked in France for over twenty years. I carried on paying voluntary NI payments and will have the thirty years required by the UK system by the time I retire. Does anyone know how this works? Will I get a partial French pension and a full UK pension (sounds too good to be true) or have I been wasting my money paying the voluntary contributions.

Thanks

[woolybanana]

Your UK voluntary contributions should give you a full OAP regardless of the French pension.

[NormanH]

Yes you should get a full OAP, and the years worked in the UK are used to calculate ELIGIBILITY for a French pension (I think you need 160 quarters) but not to calculate the amount.

Both WB and I have similar situations to yours and both of us have recently got our OAP, and I have a French pensions too (but TINY)

[idun]

What these gentlemen said.

The trimestres, well keep an eye on them and the new laws and ofcourse when you can take it.   Those trimestres done in the UK get added to the french ones to make up a full working life. IF by chance you haven't enough it will radically affect your french pension. I know someone to which that happened and they only got half of the rate they had hoped for.

[NormanH]

Yes, and the two systems count differently. The French use trimestres and the UK something else (cant remember whether it is years or weeks).

My working life calculated the UK was a bit longer than calculated the French way, so I came up a bit short of 160 , although  I had a total of  over 40 years.

The impact on my tiny French pension was considerable, taking it down from tiny to miniscule..

[idun]

Yes, it certainly does have a radical effect. Counting under both systems is very very important especially for the French Pension. Using trimestres is a great way of under paying people and would always be thoroughly worth working a little longer to make them up.  

The CNAV have someone you can see in most half decent sized towns about once a month and you can discuss all this with them even as far back as five years before a retirement is due. You may need to make an appointment or just go and wait.

[idun]

http://goo.gl/mXJt1 All the requirements for a french pension are here.

 

Only your 16 years work in the UK will count towards the calculation of your french pension and they will need to end up being full trimestres.

 

You should get your french pension if you have enough trimestres by the age of 62 (see reforms), but you will have to wait until you are pension age in the UK to get your UK pension and you'll have to look that up, more reforms.

So yes, two pensions, but remember that your french pension even a full one will be say only 70% of the maximum amount for you. And unless you are a big earner then you'll not get the max figure for the french state pension. The maximum you can get is if you look on your pay slip and see the plafond they take deductions for the state pension payments, the state pension is half of this amount and for many incomes is the base for calculating your state pension. And they use your earnings SS plafond, which I think is on your tax forms and a lot less than you have actually earned over the last 20 years to calculate this.

The other pensions in France are based on your income and number of points you get.

 

Sometimes all this feels as clear as mud.

 

 

[tinabee]

There is information here on how it should work

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/pensioner/state-pension-claims-and-calculation/eu-eu_en.htm

However, it would appear that a lot depends on which department you deal with and what pensions you claim when. If it was me, I would get independent pension forecasts from both UK and France and then work out what seems to be the most beneficial way of claiming.

Also, a brochure in English from the French perspective

https://www.lassuranceretraite.fr/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=5288817047926&ssbinary=true

[idun]

2 The rate

The rate is the percentage applied to the average annual salary to calculate your

pension. The full rate is 50% of the average annual salary.

You qualify for the full rate:

B if you have accrued the qualifying period of insurance of between 160 and

166 quarters, depending on your year of birth by aggregating all your periods of

insurance in French base pension schemes2 (see page 20);

 

Tinabee, but it says that and it isn't true. If it were we would be an awful lot better off than we are now and what we get is right.

[tinabee]

[quote user="idun"]

2 The rate

The rate is the percentage applied to the average annual salary to calculate your

pension. The full rate is 50% of the average annual salary.

You qualify for the full rate:

B if you have accrued the qualifying period of insurance of between 160 and

166 quarters, depending on your year of birth by aggregating all your periods of

insurance in French base pension schemes2 (see page 20);

 

Tinabee, but it says that and it isn't true. If it were we would be an awful lot better off than we are now and what we get is right.

[/quote]

Sorry Idun, can't help except to say that the brochure comes from this website - which I thought was an official French insurance website

https://www.lassuranceretraite.fr/cs/Satellite/PUBPrincipale/Qui-Sommes-Nous?packedargs=null

 

[NormanH]

I think that, as often in France, different offices interpret things differently.

I was aware of the system before I applied, and you will remember me starting a thread on applying for my OAP from France to which you both contributed.

I have got my Pensions through from both countries, so I am not complaining, but the 'European' idea of France applying to the UK didn't happen and I had to use tinabee's link and apply direct myself.

On the calculation of the French pension I lost out, both on the way of calculating the number of 'trimestres' and on the way of calculating my average salary, which as they are multiplied had a sad compound effect. 

[idun]

The average salary is based on the figures on your tax form. I think after the 10% and the 20% reductions OR not one of them and the mileage. So the salary figure they use goes down a lot. And so someone has to be on a lot to get the full amount of pension. And that is the reason that so many get a state pension in France that is similar to that of a state pension in the UK, the smicards would be hard pushed to get otherwise.

I reckon you'd need an average french gross anual salary of approx €68K averaged over the previous 20 years to get a full state pension and have all the trimestres in too. And I do know of people who earn that much,I said people, well two people that is all. That is to say that everyone else I know will not get a 'full' state french pension.