Campsite for 6 caravans or 20 people

[lynne]

Hi Can anyone help me.

Weve just found the perfect property for our family near Josselin.  We asked the immobiler if she could getin touch with the Marie to see if he would allow us to use some of our land as a Aire du camping Natural for 6 caravans or maximum of 20 people.  The reply was no.  The immobilier implied that we may find this throughout Brittany.  We are gutted can anyone tell me why this should be the case.  I thought they would be pleased that anyone would be bringing money into the French economy.

[Clair]

lynne,

You might find some useful info HERE and HERE.

[Pickles]

I think that there may be a terminology issue: you've asked the mairie about an "aire naturelle de camping" (which has its own definition, max size - 1 ha and 25 units - and minimum equipment spec) whereas what you seem to be proposing is a "terrain declaré" or "camping declaré"

www.halemfrance.org/IMG/pdf/legis_camping.pdf

The above link seems to indicate that for a "Terrain declaré", you don't apply for permission (which amazes me, to be honest!).

You ought to look at the PLU for the commune to see if the land is in an area where camping is prohibited. Have a look also at art R111-41 onwards in the Code de l'urbanisme.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074075&dateTexte=20120905

[Val_2]

Such projects are difficult to obtain permission for here in Brittany. One bone of contention is the subject of sewage and drainage for such a venture and most communes will not give this the go ahead as they are trying to stop more septic tanks being installed and for the mains, the cost to the commune would be impossible especially if way out of the village centre. We have had several requests on council over the years for camping sites but each one was refused mainly because of the rules regarding drainage and land zonage and of course the Littoral being right on the coast where such things are not wanted in proliferation as it spoils the area. If you are desperate to do this project, you should speak with people at the local DDE who are the overall authority to grant permission.

[lynne]

Thanks for your replies.

 

The immobilier tells me the land is NR and not Leisure land this is the reason he will not allow our project to go ahead. Would it be easier to buy a leisure lake which only has a chalet on it that we can live in during the season plus a home for the family close by.

 

[lynne]

Thanks for this info.  We have been told that a new septic tank needs to be put in the house anyway so we thought we would have one to cover the house and campers.  I think we have been misled somewhere we've spent the last 20 years visiting Normandy and Brittany and were led to believe that the Marie's were welcoming young people with open arms especially in rural areas and those who are willing to help the ecconomy and not those simply wishing to retire there.  My brother, his wife and 13 year old son are comming with us.  Obviously this does not apply in this particular department.

[sid]

I can't imagine it would be any different in other départements. Whilst welcoming new entreprises you can't expect them to make exceptions just because it's something you fancy doing. The treatment of sewage and waste water is being tackled everywhere. A fosse for a house + campsite?? More likely a treatment plant of your own at the very least. An additional requirement for caravans would have to include chemical toilet disposal too, which adds to the complications.

Many years ago when we holidayed in France with our caravan we had fleeting ideas of running a campsite, it didn't take 20 years to dispel those ideas having talked to several owners. Actually I think you'd find the red tape far more challenging than the problem of the fosse.

A more workable venture would perhaps be to invest in an established site?

[lynne]

Thank you for your response.  However I can assure you this is not something we want to do on a whim, family comitments have stopped us doing this before now.  We have kept our caravan in France for the last 10 years and spend on avarage 10 weeks in France each year.  We have visited several sites like the one we are hoping to run.  Have you ever heard of the term CL site it is a term we us in the UK.  Our site would be similar to one of those.  The fosse is no issue it is possible to have one for up to 20 persons(maximum capacity of the campsite) and the house hold.  We would offer our customers fosse friendly Biodegradable (green products) free of charge for use whilst at our site.  For further information have a look at La Bucaille website.  We visited here at Easter and Mark and Melanie were very helpful. Which department do you live in?

[lynne]

Thank you so much for this information.  Its great.  Im getting back to the immobiler and Marie see if it makes any difference.

[sid]

I'm not sure whether you are asking me where I live, but if so, you can see from my details on the left that I'm in 79. We don't have a campsite or any intention of founding one, but we've caravanned in France for around 25 years before moving here to live.

We were Caravan Club members in the UK so I'm very familiar with CLs (Certified Locations) and used them on many occasions. My understanding is that CLs are only allowed under certain limiting planning conditions, and also include the total number of nights you can stay and I think the total occupancy of the site during the year. As a user, the details are not relevent, as you are either allowed to stay or not depending on availability

The water systems are very different here in France, by which I mean the sewage disposal. In UK you're never very far from a main drain, and although there are lots of individual houses on septic tank systems they are the exception. Here in France, and especially out in the sticks, it's the other way round with fosses being the norm, although it is changing slowly.

A fosse may be OK for 20 people, but I can't imagine how big it would have to be, but for a commercial property... is it still allowed? Surely the plan is to get most of the country onto mains drainage or onto local treatment plants?

Offering green products for the caravan toilets isn't a solution (no pun intended). People arrive with their toilet systems already charged with whatever product they already use, and discharging those into a fosse would have a disastrous effect.

I didn't mean to imply that you'd started this on a whim, rather that the 20-year dream hasn't included any proper planning or surveying. To say you've found the ideal spot is wrong if that location isn't suitable as far as the local planning department is concerned.

As in the UK, neighbours often don't want caravans arriving and leaving and generally upsetting their day-to-day life, or spoiling the view, and access may not be considered ideal, so these may further reasons that permission is refused.

I am a caravanner, so I see both sides of these arguments, I just think you have to look again.

 

[Val_2]

Here in Brittany there is a huge problem with waste due to all the agriculture, the ongoing problem of algae on the beaches and the huge cost of updating the sewage treatment plants for the increased amount of the housing. NO commune will assist in helping set up a camp site business as a private concern, only a municipal site has financial assistance. Its not a case of wanting your business, its a case of preserving the region from too many camp sites and all that they involve from new access which you must have and wide enough for ambulance and fire engine and also the impact on the local community which may not want such a venture. It is definately a no no here on the coast, that is very heavily protected and even a private dwelling is no longer allowed to be built now. I am on local council so see all these applications that come in locally here from people wanting to do this and all are refused.