Form France-Individual question

[Daft Doctor]

Hi, following our recent move I am wading through all the tax-related paperwork needed to administratively manage our change of residency.  At first glance the France-Individual  form seems only possible to submit with the first tax return as French residents (in our case the 2012 return - submitted in May 2013!), which may mean a long time until tax relief in the UK is granted on my NHS pension.  Is there any way of getting this piece of paperwork dealt with earlier, for instance enclosing it with a letter declaring that we've moved, that my wife has registered as an AE, etc, or will we just have to wait?  I will also be filling in a P85 after verbal advice from HMRC, even though strictly speaking I shouldn't, as I have self-employed and property income still to be assessed in the UK so will be obliged to file a UK tax return on an ongoing basis. 

Any insight gratefully received.   

[mazandcol]

Hi there,

We moved to France last May (2011) and so I'm just completing our first tax return here (great fun).  I tried to sort out our France-Individual forms early - October 2011 - but, although the local tax office here accepted it, nothing happened.  When I finally manged to discover why nothing happened (a long story) it turns out that they will not deal with the form until your first tax return.  So you will have to wait I'm afraid.  The explanation does actually make sense... the French tax office will not (and cannot) confirm to the UK that you are paying tax in France UNTIL you submit a tax return to them.

By the way, I think you'll continue to pay tax in the UK on your NHS pension as I think it will be classed as a 'Government Pension' which are taxed at source under the Double-Taxation Treaty.

Best of luck with it all

[Boiling a frog]

Snap, altho the tax office will accept the France individual form they will not process it until you submit a tax return showing the income you are trying to get paid gross in the UK.

Some NHS pensions are classified as Government pensions and are taxed in the UK, some are not. The UK tax will tell you which you have

[NormanH]

I have been filling in Tax returns in France for a long time, but even so my local office refused to sign the form until they have processed this year's return.

This doesn't seem reasonable to me, since they are only being asked to confirm the principle that income is taxable in France, not state an amount.

[Daft Doctor]

Thanks as always for the info.  My NHS pension is definitely 'non-government' (I had a long running discussion thread re this then eventually got HMRC to come off the fence) and I will be taxed on it in France.  That suits me fine, as I have property income taxed in the UK which will use up my UK allowances and the marginal tax rate on my pension in France will be much lower that were it being taxed in the UK.  Looks as though they will still tax me on it in the UK first then I will have to claim it back when I submit the French individual form next year.  I have submitted tax returns in France as a non-resident for the last 4 years, but I can understand why they have to tie the form in with the first French tax return as a resident. 

[Chrissie]

You probably don't need to be told this, but keep copies of everything you give the French tax office and make a note of which dates it was given etc.  The office here "lost" the forms which they were supposed to send to HMRC, TWICE.  (I understood from a casual chat with someone about 5-6 years later that they felt overly put upon to be asked to "process" forms for foreigners and also to incur the cost of the postage [blink] - they only had to send them to Paris!)  I finally stood over someone while they reluctantly signed and stamped the third set and posted them myself directly to HMRC having got agreement from HMRC on the phone that this would be OK.  Nearly four years from start to finish.

Chrissie (81)