Rent on UK house

[mazandcol]

Hi all,

I've just been to my local tax office with my first French tax returns (completed with the help of this forum and the Living France guide, so thanks).  Everything seemed to be OK except they insisted I also completed a form 2044 for the rental income from UK.  I hadn't read anywhere that this was necessary but I was assured (only verbally) that I would not be taxed on this, the figures were simply for the tax credit.  But now I'm a little worried that I WILL be taxed twice so I'll have to be vigilant when the bill arrives. 

Is it normal to have to fill in 2044 for UK rental income?

Also, just for info - as we moved last May (2011) I haven't yet paid tax on the rental in UK, which initially caused a little concern for the French as I had no proof I was paying tax in the UK.  I'm not sure why this should be important to them because they admitted I won't pay tax in France. Anyway, in the end they actually wrote on my form that due to the differential between French and UK tax years, I haven't yet submitted forms to UK.  You would have thought the French tax office realised that without having to write a special note at the bottom of the form, especially as they were well aware of the treaty etc.  Ah well, c'est la vie!

Steve

[parsnips]

[quote user="mazandcol"]

Hi all,

I've just been to my local tax office with my first French tax returns (completed with the help of this forum and the Living France guide, so thanks).  Everything seemed to be OK except they insisted I also completed a form 2044 for the rental income from UK.  I hadn't read anywhere that this was necessary but I was assured (only verbally) that I would not be taxed on this, the figures were simply for the tax credit.  But now I'm a little worried that I WILL be taxed twice so I'll have to be vigilant when the bill arrives. 

Is it normal to have to fill in 2044 for UK rental income?

Also, just for info - as we moved last May (2011) I haven't yet paid tax on the rental in UK, which initially caused a little concern for the French as I had no proof I was paying tax in the UK.  I'm not sure why this should be important to them because they admitted I won't pay tax in France. Anyway, in the end they actually wrote on my form that due to the differential between French and UK tax years, I haven't yet submitted forms to UK.  You would have thought the French tax office realised that without having to write a special note at the bottom of the form, especially as they were well aware of the treaty etc.  Ah well, c'est la vie!

Steve

[/quote]

Hi,

    Last point first; they are confused about the "new" treaty, as under the article dealing with UK rents you are NOT required to prove that you have actually paid tax in the UK (many people are covered by allowances), under article 24, your rents only have to be "subject" to UK tax, and the treaty article 6 states that that is the case.  The credit is to cover any potential FRENCH tax--I don't know why they can't get that through their skulls.

    Many people are being sent form 2044 this year.  This is more understandable , as given that form 2047 asks for expenses , this implies that you will be assessed under the "regime réel" via form 2044.  However , if your rents are less than 15000€ you are by right in the "micro foncier " regime where you don't declare expenses but get a fixed 30% allowance , and declare at 4BE on 2042, and don't use 2044..     If you think that would be to your  advantage -bearing in mind that whatever tax results should be covered by a credit, so it's not crucial-you could complete 4BE and write (preferably in felt-tip) on 2044 " sous régime micro-foncier de plein droit".

     

[mazandcol]

Cheers Parsnip

I agree regarding rentals in UK being 'subject' to UK tax - that's why I was surprised about them wanting proof I'd paid/was paying!

Interesting that you say 2044 should not be used if rent comes under 'micro foncier' - it was the tax officer who suggested to me that I should claim under 'micro' (rent is less than 15000).  I had taken all the actual figures with me, including expenses. SHE filled it all in on 2044, then transferred to 2042 for me. 

So it's all done now - rightly or wrongly - I was just surprised they wanted 2044 when I had read nothing anywhere suggesting they would.

We'll see what happens...

[Mac]

We also filled in the form(2044) to declare the rental on our UK property (first tax return- arrived April 2011). We have not paid tax on the rental in the UK but talking to HMRC they asked if we had filled in a self assessment form and a Non-resident Landlord form together with Help-sheet 304 (to do with dual tax treaty I think) As we had done all of those they said that the rent would be more than covered by our UK tax allowances-which you still get apparently. I have to say that the Technical Advisor I spoke to at HRMC was extremley helpful and went through all the forms box by box. This is the first time I have had to fill in self assessment forms ( my husband has done them before) so I was a bit worried but the lady at HRMC was great.We both claimed for half the rent (and half the allowances).

[Patf]

We've never had to fill in form 2044. I've been filling in the UK self assessment forms since we came here 10 yrs ago, we sometimes have to pay tax in the UK and I've always entered all this on the french forms at 2047/vii, which they've accepted up to now. For this year, we'll see.

Seems that different Depts interpret the tax laws differently.

ps I forgot to say, this is for rents on a UK house.

[mazandcol]

Hi all,
it looks like some have used 2044 and some haven't - as Patf says, different depts do different things.  Maybe the change the year is due to the new treaty.  Thanks for the replies, at least you've reassured me, but I think the Living France tax guide should point this out so it's not a surprise as it was for me.

We've registered as Non-resident landlords etc and received UK self-assessment forms a couple of weeks ago, which I'll complete next.