bernie the bolt Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hi everyone, new to site but would appreciate any advice .After a recent visit to Mayenne, we were offered a property in a nice villagefor £24,000 (obviously requiring work but fortunately within scope of expertise), although the deal is unusual to say the least.The vendor is a Irish lady about 61, who in recent times as suffered a little ill health,Fearing the worse she would like to sell the house for this very reasonable amount but remain in the house for the forseeable future.As we are only in late 40,s with no chance of moving permanently to France for a good 15-20 years, would never have a budget of more than £30-40,000 to buy a property, but do have the enthusiasm and ability to renovate it slowly over a number of years.The deal we are close to finalising would see the vendor staying in the property rent free for a ten year period,after which time if she is still there she would be liable for a rent of 200 euros per month.The way we see it for the above reasons, is at least the house wont be empty, were doing the old girl a good turn, in 15-20 years we may have a nicely renovated, paid for house in France to retire to, and even if we never get to live in the house it,s an investment for our pension or to leave the kids.Does anyone out there think it,s not a bad idea, or have we gone insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Bernie be very carefull, the tenancy laws in France are very complex and from what I can see are totaly on the side of the tenant. Please take as much legal advice as possible. By the way 200 Euro a month rent is not a lot of money today, and in ten/twenty years will be obviously less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nectarine Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Nick is absolutely right, take good advice. I understand your intentions are honourable, and this lady may also be perfectly honest, but a few years down the line things may be different and relations between you might not be as easy. Tenancy laws are weighted in her favour.Take legal advice, lots of it, research as much as possible. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Personally, I wouldn't entertain the idea. House buying can be stressful and complicated enough with what appear simple transactions. I'd never consider anything that had a known degree of complexity. Your money, your choice of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 It is a viager and needs to be set up properly by a notaire. 61 may be a bit young though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northender Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Was there not a famous case in Arles , having entered into a similar arrangement , the woman lived to be 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 The OP asks: have we gone insane?Short answer: yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I wonder how an unwell 61 year old will feel about living through the 'work' that needs doing, how will you feel if you have to make good fair wear and tear from her living there, and that's only the first things that come to mind, you talk about children, they get more expensive, not less - the work may not be your priority - frankly I suspect it has the makings of a nightmareSorry !PS You could have a lot of good holidays for £24000 with no concerns or ties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimg Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 with vacant possession onlykim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pads Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Its a gamble .. but not nessercessily a bad one , with the right legal advice setting out what you both want and expect ... dont see why it should be any different from having a live in house keeper .. Do you intend to use it each year ? is she prepared to have you there ? You just have to be firm and know what you want , so there are no arguments later ... If it has the potenial of being a nice house its a gamble you could win ... Who knows ?? I wouldnt be where I am today with out a few gambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I can only see winners and losers with this idea and I don't think you need a crystal ball to see who the looser will be. In those immortal words, walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Good luck for the future from a fellow Mancunian , we did the move 4 years ago - no regrets.Big kisses to Amanda Lamb . [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 HelloYour proposed set up is a little odd even for a viager. I looked at it once and I found as per this ad below that you pay a very low price for the house and then you pay the tenant an amount per month until they die to make up for the fact you are getting the house 'cheap'. You can see from the below the house is worth in this case 150k and they are askiing 50ish, they dont say how old the occupant is but in this case one would pay hiim 220 euros per month until he dies.Are you sure that in it is not you paying the 'rent' this is the normal set up.http://www.costes-viager-caen.com/vente/viager/caen/maison-lithaire-1966.html Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I have to say say Panda I think what you are describing is probably the right way round. I would strongly suggest that the OP gets some advice from a Notaire before progressing further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi BernieJust a couple of thoughts:what's the property worth with vacant possession ?Do you have any idea if the Irish lady's family is long lived ? If you don't want to ask with her full name and date and place of birth you could find out.Good luckfrom a fellow MancunianWilko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Unless this is a proper viager deal through a notaire then walk away as you will not have any rights.What in your opinion is the current market value of the property? Are you sure that there is not a monthly rent for you to pay as is normal on viager?Is this Irish lady a French citizen?I know a guy in his eighties who is having a pretty lean time in his retirement due to a viager that he took on many many years ago, the old lady is now over 100 and still going strong, the guy pays her rent each month, is responsible for the taxes foncieres and repairs to the house, on a mothly basis he now has to cut the grass and tend the pôtager as she is no longer capable as well as doing the same for his own property, he did of course also pay her a lump sum at the onset.Due to his failing health and workload it looks like she will outlive him at which point she will be free to sell again under viager and for her own peace of mind should do so, the next buyer will have to stump up a significant sum but statistically wont have to wait long for a return on his investment.I was a program on the TV on viager, they interviewed one old lady who had outlived 3 purchasers and the notaire was seeking the 4th!I will definitely consider viager when I am of an age but it does not tempt me as an investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 What happened to the last post by bernie saying that we hadn't been told the true facts and that the deal had already been done. Where did that go?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 [quote user="DerekJ"]What happened to the last post by bernie saying that we hadn't been told the true facts and that the deal had already been done. Where did that go?:[/quote]Stuck in the ether somewhere...Here's what is said:[quote user="bernie"]Final log, as truth be known the deed had already been done somemonths ago. Only recently found this website and wanted some feedback.Was grateful for all advice especially that of Dirty Tom (not Sid as per last message) The deal is not a viager!Rather one agreed between ourselves, the vendor and the notaire.So with everything crossed , - adieu and ta-ta.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I get the feeling Bernie is new to posting on a forum and starts a new thread instead replying to an existing one.A bit of patience and understanding might be helpful [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie the bolt Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Thanks Clair, i am.Sorry for any confusion, never really got round to computing until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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