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Tax Habitation


hakunamatata

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For the last two years we have been paying monthly for our TH. Last year we had a letter telling us that we no longer needed to pay the tax and a cheque for the years payment. We were naturally delighted. The authority cancelled our bank standing order and no monies have been taken out since. The other day surprise surprise we received a bill for TH ! Also in all the time we have been paying this tax (around 6 years now) we were never charged for the tv but now we are. My husband is 72 and I am 69. If anyone has a good explanation for this I would be grateful to hear it. We are annoyed to say the least because we now have a hefty pre-Christmas bill which was totally unexpected and it was not ourselves who cancelled the standing order but the Impot.

 

 

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It may be that with the new way of collecting tax on UK pensions you have gone over the level of income beneath which you don't have to pay Taxe d'habitation, whereas before you were just under it.

Obviously I don't know your circumstances, but this is what has happened to me this year.

The levels are shown on the table on the right of the page on this link:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F42.xhtml

15376€ for a couple, 10024€ for a single person are the figures.

If you don't pay the taxe d'habitation you don't pay for the TV either.

Once you pay one you pay both..

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F88.xhtml#N1011B

A trap is that if they stop taking the monthly payment one year because you don't have to pay they don't take it the subsequent years unless you actively opt back into the system by the end of the year for the following year.

If you think you will have to pay next year and want to pay monthly you need to contact them and set it up.

On the other hand you could put it aside in 10 instalments in a savings account such as a Livret A, and so have it available when the bill comes.

I am not charged for the TV as I watch on my computer.

If you want to claim exemption you have to tick a box on the Déclaration to the tax office, but of course only if you haven't got a TV.

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Yes, Norman is quite right.  It's all to do with your 'RFR' (essentially your combined taxable income).  If it falls below those levels, then your TdH is wiped out.

In your particular case, the timing is crucial. You say "last year  ..... we no longer needed to pay the tax" and you received a refund. My guess is that you received that notification as a result of your 2011 declaration and subsequent assessment for 2010 income. You have now been invoiced, but this may be as a correction for that 2010 income (have you been re-assesed?) or for 2011 income as a result of your 2012 declaration (although its a bit early for TdH invoices).  Its more likely to be the former.  Still with me?

For anybody to be able to assist, one would need more details.  Do please email or pm me and I'd be more than happy to try to assist.

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I don`t know what has happened with mine this year. It has virtually doubled this year, an increase of 90%. Seems a big increase. I found the figure in My Space in the online tax website, although it gives no breakdown of the figures, and as Gardian wrote..it is too early for the actual invoices. Surely such big hikes are not normal? I usually receive the disabled discount (2.5 parts), but cant say yet if there has been an error.

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There's any number of reasons as to why this has occurred.

The most likely is that the Valeur Locative of your property has been re-assessed (house extension / improvement a few years back?) and this has now kicked in.  That could make a big difference.

The other possibility is a re-assessment as a result of your RFR being changed (as with the previous poster perhaps), but it sounds unlikely.

Until you see the written assessment, its impossible to say.   

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I had my actual paper Avis on Friday which confirms what I said for me "Vous ne remplissez plus en 2012 les conditions pour bénéficier du même allégement de taxe d'habitation qu'en 2011"

This come right at the end on the last page just above the Montant de la contribution à lAudiovisel.

Another less likely reason for a higher charge is that many towns have found them selves in trouble with the interest rate on  debts contracted in the past.

Some are almost bankrupt. I posted about this a while back.

It is unlikely to account for a 90% increase however.

One final factor

In my town the majority of people fall below the threshold for paying taxe d'habitation !

That leaves a lot to find  for the minority who do pay, and accounts for the anomalies where bye the taxe d'habitation per inhabitant for a posh part of Paris, where almost everybody pays, is lower than the per capita rate for poor places like mine ..[:-))]

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It seems that there may be a huge bug or several in the Tax Systems.  Several work colleagues who are 'Fronteliers' (live in France, work and pay tax in Luxembourg) are getting letters saying they pay no Tax d'Hab this year and here's a refund for last !!!!

So are Mondial payments not being taken into account and many are appearing to be below the threshold?

I would say that if you get a refund, don't spend it yet.

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[quote user="Gardian"]

There's any number of reasons as to why this has occurred.

The most likely is that the Valeur Locative of your property has been re-assessed (house extension / improvement a few years back?) and this has now kicked in.  That could make a big difference.

The other possibility is a re-assessment as a result of your RFR being changed (as with the previous poster perhaps), but it sounds unlikely.

Until you see the written assessment, its impossible to say.   

[/quote]

I don`t think that the Valeur Locative would be the case as we have had no knowlwdge of any re-assessment, nor any great improvement in the house, not recently, or even a few years back. But, as you say, until I see the written assessment, the reason can only be guessed.

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Received the paper copy today, and as per NormanHs avis, says "Vous ne remplissez plus en 2012 les conditions pour bénéficier du même allégement de taxe d'habitation qu'en 2011".

It says to see the Notice attached to the Avis, but it says nothing as to the reasons, as far as I can see.

Anyone good as deciphering these Avis Notices?

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[quote user="NormanH"]"Les conditions" usually refers to your income. So it means you no longer fulfil the conditions for an exoneration ..

Has your income gone over the threshold as I suggested in my earlier post?

[/quote]

Without checking, I suspect you are entireley correct. Our income for last years (2011) tax habitation was based on declared income for 2010, and due to the fact that we became resident almost half way through at year would mean that our income was therefore below the threshold for that year. Our income for 2011 would be over the threshold, hence the full whack for TH, despite having 2.5 tax parts ! Thanks NormanH.

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Having just checked, I am now not so sure that I should not have some form of abattement. Our RFR was 20475 and we have 2.5 parts. Due to a drop in income, the RFR was not too different from last years, so may have to have a trip to the tax office to have that one explained to me!

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Stan .............

Before you charge off to your local Impots, I'd urge caution.

The 2.5 parts that you quote has no bearing when it comes to arriving at your TdH assessment.  Its the RFR that counts. 

Check out your RFR for the last 3 years (2012 assessment for 2011 income and so on back for the previous 2 yrs) and that should give you a guide.

In short, just be sure that before you stir things up, you're not in a situation where in previous years you benefitted from some sort of error, rather than this year's assessment being wrong !!  

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Hi, i'm in the same situation, with 2.5 parts, and i think you will find that it's 10,024 for the first part and then 2676 for every following part, so that makes you need less than 18052 euros on your revenue fiscal.

There is a table on the inside of your TdH that gives all the figures.

Although, they did make a mistake on my tax return, so it is important that you check it.

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[quote user="NormanH"]For 2.5 parts the figure is 18052 as Kelly says.

the table of figures is on the right hand side of the link I gave in my first post

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F42.xhtml

[/quote]

Why is there more than one table of figures? I was looking at this paragraph, which is half way down that page opposite the table of figures you refer to.

"

Plafonnement de taxe d'habitation en fonction du revenu

Si vous n'êtes pas exonéré de taxe d'habitation, vous

pouvez peut-être bénéficier d'un dispositif de plafonnement de taxe

d'habitation.

Personnes concernées

Vous pouvez bénéficier d'un plafonnement de taxe d'habitation 2012 si vous remplissez les conditions suivantes :

  • vous n'avez pas été soumis à l'ISF en 2011,

  • votre

    revenu fiscal de référence

    en 2011 ne dépasse pas certaines limites :

    23.572 €

     pour la 1ère part de quotient familial, majoré de

    5.507 €

    pour la 1ère demi-part et de

    4.334 €

    pour les demi-parts supplémentaires."

No much wonder people, like me, are confused ! [8-)]

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The first table, the one I linked to in my first post and again above is the one which covers the levels below which you are exonerated from paying.

The second table which you quote is for something else, the possibility of having the Taxe d'habitation capped.

In other words the first table is about the maximum level  of income for not paying at all, whereas the second is about the  maximum level of income over which there is no possibility of having it reduced (as opposed to being exonerated).

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[quote user="NormanH"]The first table, the one I linked to in my first post and again above is the one which covers the levels below which you are exonerated from paying.

The second table which you quote is for something else, the possibility of having the Taxe d'habitation capped.

In other words the first table is about the maximum level  of income for not paying at all, whereas the second is about the  maximum level of income over which there is no possibility of having it reduced (as opposed to being exonerated).

[/quote]

Thanks NormanH, I understand the first table re exoneration from paying. As regards the 2nd table, our RFR with 2.5parts is €20475, which is below the maximum level. This does then mean that we should have it reduced, does it not? Or am I still confused? I dont mind forwarding a copy of the Avis to someone who can explain it to me !!!

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For once, I's just like to receive my bill - Taxe Fonciere arrives every year to our UK address, but Taxe d'habitation to the French address - I've written, emailed, telephoned, visited the local tax office BUT after 8 years they still can't get it right. 

 

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[quote user="NormanH"]You are certainly under the ceiling for having a small reduction, but it depends on a complicated calculation.

The way this is done is explained here:

http://doc.impots.gouv.fr/aida2008/brochures_idl2008/ud_043.html

but I find it rather complicated:)

[/quote]

Thanks NormanH, you are correct....too complicated. Can I re-iterate that if anyone is "au fait" with the calculation of TH...is there any chance they can check my Avis for me before I go to the tax office and make a fool of myself!

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Don't worry about making a fool of yourself. Just get all your paper work together and go in and smile apologetically and say something roughly along these lines........   'De m’excuse. Je ne comprends pas comment vous calculer les chiffres. Pourriez vous m’expliquer s’il vous plait'.

Always worked for me and still does.

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On the back of the Avis you can see if you received a plafonnement or not

The last but one line (the one above the box bottom right which says Montant de votre impôt) there is a line

a) Côtisations

b) Allègements

at the right hand end of this line there is a box plafonnement selon le revenu. If there is a number to the right of this again that is the amount of the reduction awarded.

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[quote user="NormanH"]On the back of the Avis you can see if you received a plafonnement or not

The last but one line (the one above the box bottom right which says Montant de votre impôt) there is a line

a) Côtisations

b) Allègements

at the right hand end of this line there is a box plafonnement selon le revenu. If there is a number to the right of this again that is the amount of the reduction awarded.

[/quote]

ÉVOLUTION DES IMPOSITIONS ENTRE 2011 ET 2012      
    ANNÉE 2011 ANNÉE 2012 En valeur En pourcentage Plafonnement

selon le revenu (7)
    
  (a) Cotisations 224  228  +4  +1,79 %   
  (b) Allègements 149  -149  -100 %       
  (c) = (a) - (b) Somme à payer 75  228  +153  +204 %       
     
That is what I have in that part NormanH. As you can see, last year I received a €149 "allegement", but this year 0, and as I explained at €20475 RFR with 2.5parts, am still below the plafond for a reduction. My income for 2011, on which the RFR 2012 is based, is around €3K more than the RFR for 2011, but as I say, still below the plafond.

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